Differences in training for sport and real life... - Page 1

Do the people that train at a club level for sport use the same training methods as the people who train for real life situations such as in police work or SAR?  And if not, can you blend the 2 methods if you want to do both sport and real life?

When teaching a dog for tracking articles is this the same as if you wanted to train him/her to do SAR or being a drug/bomb dog?

What do the k9 officers do differently when training in bitework than the schutzhund people do?

I have this information from Tina Barber, breed founder of the Shiloh Shepherd.

Back when she was still working exclusively with GSD's, she imported titled Schutzhund dogs from Germany, intending to train and sell them as personal protection dogs.

Do you think you could get these dogs to bite ANYTHING but a protective sleeve?? NO WAY!!! It took weeks to convince some of them that 'bite' meant 'bite' regardless of what the person was wearing!

Even the tracking training for police work is quite different from AKC tracking tests (am not familiar with Schutzhund tracking) and from SAR tracking. Some SAR dogs are trained to find the lost person on their own, then return to their handler, and lead them to where the person is. In AKC tracking tests, a dog will lose points if it cuts corners. In police work, the goal is to find the person/object, etc. and it doesn't matter how the dog does it. It it catches an air scent, and cuts corners, instead of doing footstep tracking, that's just fine. The end result is the important thing.  Police dogs also track much more quickly than AKC type tracking, and this can be a problem because they pull their handlers along much faster than some people can walk. I've heard of non-police handlers outpacing their police officer escort, and winding up confronting the criminal themselves, alone and unarmed. One handler who had this happen to him made sure that from then on  the officers escorting him were really physically fit!

One of the biggest differences is that sport dogs are usually trained on large open fields.  They usually practice the exercises that are needed for the trial.  They aslo used the equipment needed for example sch dogs use sleeves, french ring uses bite suits.  Tracking in the sport work is usually graded on the preciseness of the work, obedience is also graded on how precise and correct the work is done.  In the sport world it is about getting the most points possible. 

Police dog training is different because police dogs just do not bite in open fields, they are worked inside buildings, both dark and lit, in the woods, and so on. Now I am not saying that one dog is better than the other, so please do not take it that way. Police dogs (good ones) bite on sch sleeves, bite suits, hidden sleaves, and they do muzzle work.  In police work tracking is based on how well the track was done but all in all it is about the end result, finding the bad guy or lost child not how precise he followed the track.  Obedience has to be correct.

The major thing in common with the sport world and the real world (police,SAR etc.) is that they both take time, and done well it is very satisfying.   

I would have to say, one is real and the other is a sport.

Nice answer, right?  Well if you are training for sport, it is exercises to gain the most points.  If we are talking about REAL, real. then it is for preservation.  When you train a dog for REAL life situations, that dog had better be trained to the utmost potential.  You don't send yourchildren into a war if they are not equipped. Or do you?  You have to make sure that that dog has seen every senario you can think of.  Like XEUS was explaining, you can't just take a Sch dog off the field and expect him to do a building search.

In my opionion....

No, they don't.  And I can also not answer what exactly the differences are as I am not a old hand at it.

But based on other species of animals that I do work with, to me there is no reason why if you know both ways and have real understanding about training and the right kind of dog. Plus I would think the dogs would have to be started as pups. They don't know what they are training for. They just know what they are taught. So if the talent and ability is there and the right trainer I don't see why not. But it may be hard to find a trainer like that.

Goose

First of all, I thought we lost you!  When I saw Maverick holding you in the water, I couldn't contain myself.

I don't know if I fully understand your post, but if you are talking about dogs that have been successful in both worlds, there have been plenty.

Greg Mominee, or mo'money as I like to call him, had success in both worlds with several dogs.  Mike Diehl has had success in both with single dogs.  Flinks, Andrel, Sheldahl, etc,etc.....there are many who do both with a single dog. 

Yeah, hunting season can be a b...!

I think that people limit themselves in training due to exposure, time, experiences, personal preferences and a few other things. I see no reason why one has to limit themselves to training a SchH dog in an open field. Maybe most people do, we do in our group because that is what we have. But I also know of more than one person that do have the ability to train different places. And as a matter of fact I have access to someone I could train differently with if I had time and the dog to so so. After all, the more the dog sees and learns to handle, the better he will be. In my opinion that is.

Ultimatly I don't think the dog cares. They are going to learn what they have been taught. So if someone can teach a good balance and has the right dog I think the sky is the limit. I think Mike Diehl is a great example.

You are right if you have the right dog, and the right trainer, then yes the sky is the limit. If you raise and train a dog the correct way for the work the more exposure he gets the better.  A lot of people limit themselvs and the dog for many reasons, time, money experience etc. just make sure that you can read your dog correctly because if you dont it could cost you deerly. some dogs no matter what you do would not make good police dogs but that same dog might me a great sport dog. Just dont think that just becuase the sport dog knows how to bite a sleeve that it will protect you for real. Not all dogs have the heart for the REAL training.

Police K9 training  involves teaching dog to trail totally opposite from competition tracking as is scent training for whatever item they are trained on. scenting involves both ground and raft scent and they do not track on ground scent from step to step.

in protection work the police K9 use"agitation" and exposed to more different and unique situations such as working in the dark etc. sport involves more pattern training and being equipment trained.

to name a few differences

O'kay just have to say my two cents. Your all full of shit! Stormfront Bronson was started in Calgary in the sport. Too much dog so he went through 2 police depts. before his last chance and Mike Diehl saved him. He was a very stong dog in his prime and needed a very strong handler. Perfect match. It is the dog and the handling not the training that is the block. Eric Luke who runs Winnepeg K9 and travels througout Canada teaching puppy seminars  for K9 units advocates sch tracking for imprinting as it teaches dogs to quickly put the nose down and re-aquire the track. He also does the tug work with young cop dogs and starts and maintains bite work at a very good club. BTW he won the NA Police Dog Championships with a 2 year old dog doing this. The similarities are more than you people are able to see. JMHO