Folklore, Feeding, Supplements & other ?'s and Suggestions... cont

This is a placeholder text
Group text

by D.H. on 20 June 2007 - 23:06

This is re the post http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/107953.html
For some reason I could not post at the other thread, so I am starting another. You may have to look at the other thread for reference.
***

What a diet!

Puppies of the size of a GSD should not be fed puppy food after 4 months of age, never mind adults. The way the food you mention is formulated is for growing pups the the specific needs for growing pups and do not meet the proper needs of fully grown adults. Switch to an adult food and only feed puppy formula when you wean pups and then up to 4 months.

Re the supplements you use... basically just making the manufactureres rich and your wallet lighter, but not doing much in the combination that you are giving, because some cancel each other out, several are already in some of the many items that you use, some are just redundant. First of all, when you feed a balanced commercial diet, all this supplementation stuff should not be necessary or else the food is not good. Second, look at what you give and why. It looks like you just have gobbled up bits and pieces of info somewhere and then added each item to the list without checking if it is actually needed and what it is good for.

Solid Gold Steamed Bone Meal - throws off calcium : phosophorous balance in the food you are feeding. Why are you giving grown dogs extra calcium? Because if you feed puppy food it does not supply enough for the food vs an adults dogs body weight and amount the adult eats. Hence the need to feed an adult formula. Why are you giving growing pups extra calcium that will throw off the carefully balanced diet that they are getting? This supplement also contains some phosphorous but not in the appropriate ratio. If the food is a quality food, do not mess with stuff like that, it can very easily do more harm than good.
Satin Finish Rice Bran - I guess you feed this extra to provide excessive amounts of phosphorous to make up for the unnecessary added calcium you are giving via the bone meal. Dogs are not horses. Rice Bran is THE in-food with horses right now, but read the research, long term feeding with horses is not working, and dogs should not get too much rice bran. Most certainly not growing pups because Rice bran can also throw off the calcium : phosphorous balance as it is very high in phosphorous. Never mind that Rice Bran is already in the Solid Gold SeaMeal which you are also giving and also in the food you are already feeding. So this is redundant.
Solid Gold SeaMeal - Kelp and seaweed is also a fashionable supplement, but also already in the food you feed. If you feel you must feed it, at least cycle it and do not give daily, ie one day on/one day off, or 5 days on/2 days off. Not quite sure what the lactose in this product is supposed to do. Maybe the cause for occasional loose stools? You can pick up non-irradiated kelp powder at your local natural food store for 2-3 bucks for an 8oz bag. Instead of kelp or seaweed of unknown origin, a good blue-green algae or spirulina or red algae or similar product without any fillers and bells and whistles that do no good would be more beneficial.

by D.H. on 20 June 2007 - 23:06

Solid Gold MSM - you are already feeding MSM with the NaturVet MSM/Glucosamine/Condroitin, which I assume has been balanced to work in proper synergy as they have formulated it. So why add MSM as a separate supplement? Redundant.

Never mind that the NaturVet MSM/Glucosamine/Condroitinis laden with sugar and chemical preservatives all of which your dogs do not needs and should not go into your dogs food at all. If you must feed such a type of supplement look for something better, something that is free of fillers, sugars, preservatives, etc. Regular supplementation of Glucosamine alone can have an affect on blood sugar/insulin, most certainly no extra Corn Syrup needed to put more stress on the system. Poor choice of product IMO. Ask your local compound pharmacy if they will make you a powder for your dog use without any cr*p in it. Probably much cheaper and more effective.

Solid Gold Flax seed oil - you are also feeding the BARF Omega3 fatty acids, so again, double whammy, making the Flax Seed Oil redundant. Use a good Omega3 product and skip the Flax Seed Oil, as most people do not store Flax Seed Oil properly and once it is subject to improper storage (exposed to light, air, room temp and not used up very quickly) it will go rancid very quickly and be subject to oxidation and as such actually acts as a carcinogen. Not good. Omega3 supplementation is a very good idea, but do it properly.

The whole flax seed is therefore also pretty much redundant, though better than the oil. However, the dogs may not even digest the whole seeds though and if they do not then that too is money down the drain. What it might add is a nice source of fibre. As I have never fed whole flax seed, only freshly ground flax meal I have no idea if dogs can actually digest the whole seed that has not been mechanically broken down yet. If you get feed grade flax seed for horses though (and I think you do) you may again do more harm than good as the seeds too are subject to oxidation and need to be stored cool, dry, dark and airtight, that includes from the source, a feed store that sells flax seed in bulk is not a good source when feeding this to dogs. If you feed it ground, grind them before use, and store what is not needed in an airtight container in the freezer.

Red Cell - I hope it is not the Vitamin-Iron-Mineral supplement for HORSES! If you use the one for dogs, then why? You are already using the Solid Gold MultiVitamin & Mineral Supplement, so what exactly is the point in adding another multi-supplement? Redundant. If it is the one for horses... pretty irresponsible IMO then.

L-Lysine Powder - usually used as a muscle builder, and again, popular for horses. Unless your dogs are performance dogs that are actively performing at shows or trials, this too is redundant.

by D.H. on 20 June 2007 - 23:06

Looks like you are using a lot of horse supplements for your dogs. And a lot of dog supplements that overlap each other making many redunant. Too much of a good thing is just that. Plus you feed the wrong food for your dogs life stages. It can put extra loads on your dogs internal organs, on the joints and connective tissues, bones etc. It is called puppy food for a reason. There is a lot more to the formulation of a food than just protein and fat content. You can add extra protein very easily by giving some extra chicken or turkey necks as a separate meal. Also keep in mind that the protein content is always listed as minimum of... If you feel you must supplement some worth while supplements are:

Omega3 fatty acids
VitaminC (though some think that is debatable)
Digestive enzymes
Beneficial gut bacteria like acidophilis
Cranberry extract for urinary tract health
Olewo Carrots (boosts colour so you can skip the extra kelp and is beneficial for overall health)
Olewo Beets if pup/dog eats its own poop or to boost colour, otherwise stick with O-Carrot.
Good multivitamin/mineral can be helpful though there is a lot of junk out there and one product designed for dogs is plenty. Be careful with adding inappropriate minerals for growing pups
MSM/Chontroitin/Glucosamin can be helpful if needed, not so sure about its use as a preventative. Most dog foods contain it these days, many not in doses high enought to have real theraputic value, but also include Inulin to stabilize blood sugar.
Brewers yeast... at least does not harm
Most amino acid supplements are only useful for performance dogs during training and performance phases.
Beware what you give to pregnant bitches. Some folic acid, vitamin C, Omega 3s and a really good food which you increase either half way or at onset of 3rd trimester and you are good to go.

by VBK9 on 20 June 2007 - 23:06

Wow, DH, lots of great information in that!

by Bob-O on 21 June 2007 - 00:06

D.H., I agree 100%. A well-formulated diet should not require any supplements unless the dog truely has a special need. I think the most insidious supplements are the calcium supplements that are advertised for puppies, as we all know the harm that can be done by those.

Regards,

Bob-O

by EchoMeadows on 21 June 2007 - 03:06

Thank You very much, and this is why I posted the question, The folklore of supplements is 200 pages long, Litterally !

It's nice to know that some people are willing to argue it, OK well for me back to the drawing board. Will sit down with my vet and and see what is and what is NOT needed.

Thank You DH Your awesome !

by gsdsch3v on 21 June 2007 - 05:06

DH, I agree with everything except your opinion of the "puppy" food for adults. Most "adult" formulas are low in

protein if your dog is very active or working/training. Our K9 nutritionist recommends not less than 26% and preferably

30-32% protein in a working dog diet. When comparing labels the main difference between the puppy and most adult (except

the performance formulas) is the protein/fat percentages and the kcal per serving unit. Most of the time the puppy provides more

energy and protein/fat.

Colleen

by LMH on 21 June 2007 - 15:06

A whole egg is the precise balance between calcium and phosphorous......not protein and phosphorous that I mistakenly typed earlier. Realized my error. Sorry about that.

Echo---Get yourself a couple of books on vitamins and minerals. Don't forget to pick up one on holistic herbs, either. Vitamins interact with each other and have partners that make them work....such as Calcium-Magnesium, or E and Selenium. It will help you make a more informed decision when choosing a product.

Another little tidbit of info------MSM....used by many humans to fight arthritic symptoms.....especially RA (which is your body attacking itself, or an overly stimulated immune system). If anyone gives MSM to a dog whose immune system is already compromised, he or she might actually be exascerbating the problems associated with a poor immune system. Do I know this to be a fact? No. But, that is something I will take into consideration. Vitamins, minerals,and herbs can be very dangerous if not used properly. That's why I previously mentioned my preference for knowing the levels used in ingredients of certain products........Dog foods have incorporated many of these supplements,(although I doubt any high levels are used..........prices would be sky high, and no one would be buying any bags, period.) Still----one should study up as much as possible-----better safe than sorry. When I saw the products you listed, I took it for granted they weren't all used at the same time. I believe the SG company itself had recommended alternately using Seameal and it's multi vitamin-mineral product. Whatever......it's many years since I used seameal. Anyway, hon......when you get a chance, get some books. Your vet may or may not be able to advise you.

by EchoMeadows on 21 June 2007 - 15:06

LMH, That is excellent advice ! Thank You I will do that, It would be good to read up on all of this and get some better understanding of how they work together and compliment each other. If one is cancelling another then it is not very effective is it.

Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top

Folklore, Feeding, Supplements & other ?'s and Suggestions... cont - Page 1

Pedigree Database