SchH Question #2/phase I - Page 1

I know alot of people like to do multiple scent pads full of food when they start their puppies in tracking.  I must admit that I have never used that method.  I always had a bigger than normal scent pad that was shaped like a house.  The roof of the house pointing and leading into the track.  A short track mind you full of food.  I never space out my steps.  It's almost a continuous line with a small mound of reward at the end.  I always did atleast two of these every time.  I would gradually space out the steps and the track would get longer.  Then obviously on to turns, articles, less food, longer aging etc, etc.

I guess the reason I am posting these is because there aren't enough training post on here.  Besides, I just got a new pup and it's been a little while since I had to start a new dog.  I like to pick brains and see what ideas are out there.  This site could be very beneficial with training as long as people don't feel the need to criticize others.  Just give your opinion and read everyone elses.  If you don't agree, there is no need to be an acehole.  Simply explain why you think your way is more benificial.  Hell, you don't even have to mention a post you don't agree with.  For example, I wrote on the other thread that I don't like to reward with a toy on the track.  If you don't agree, write how you like the toy because your dog has more ball/prey drive than food drive. Etc, etc, etc....

I have done both ways you are talking about. I like the multiple better for me. But the big scent pad is how i was thought when i first got in the sport. It worked well but since i have been doing the multiple pads i seem to like it better. I have a 8 month old puppy that is doing well with tracking and she was started on multiple scent pads.

 Jerry

I like the toy for a reward because I use a lot of food on the scent pads and it much quicker to grab the kong and throw , I use a water kong ,easier to use and I can always get it hung in the nearest tree , also   good thing train where not many trees....sometimes...HAHA, because I feel it is important to reward immedialely,,   2 seconds if possible after the last nose contact on the tract.....or any ending....I make a mess with the food and enough of it during training and other times......I think the toy keeps he puppy happy   mine have high food and high toy., or play drive.....

or balls on a rope, two of them ......

I'm doing multiple scent pads (with food)  then toe to heel track (with food) and food mound reward at the end.  I've only done a handful of these so far but it seems to be working well for my pup. 

With AKC tracking with my older shepherd I did one beginnning scent pad, track (not toe to heel) and toy reward at the end.  His kept his nose deep right from the get go so there was never a need to add food.

Im doing a standard scent pad with food on the pad as well to get the pup interested. To start a pup, I take a step, slide the foot back and inch or so, and put a bit of food at the tip so he hopefully investigates the whole footfall. If he/she is doing well and staying focused I will increase the length of the track, then maybe age it 5-7 minutes, then gradually start skipping steps. I dont introduce more than one new variable/challenge at a time- ie this week a bit longer, next week more aging, then skipping steps. If things continue to go well I will start introducing curves for the pup, and turning up the challenges.

So nice to see some training topics!

I like the multiple scent pads much better than the first way I was taught. I think it teaches the dog the  where the scent and reward is quicker and clearer. Once I am spacing my steps apart, I introduce curves and turns right away.  Might as well imprint everything as far as I am concerned. I keep lots of food on the track till I see the dog lose the track and find it with non hectic behavior, then I teach articles and start skipping food in lots of steps. With my very hectic dog, I taught articles very young in an effort to slow him down. It has worked so far but I may have made a mistake at not letting him "settle into the track" when he was learning.

In the beginning I did multiple scent pads with this dog, but discarded that approach because it just didn't seem necessary with this dog.  I also introduce  big sweeping serpentines very nearly at the beginning.  I usually track 3 to 4 times a week & lay 2 trcks each time.

I guess when I thought about doing the multiple scent pads,  Changer put it best.  "Might as well imprint everything as far as I am concerned."

I guess I always wanted my pups to know that this does lead to something.  I want them to search for that.  Not to be confined to a box with four corners. 

Don Coleone-

I do the big, triangle scent pad, lots of food spread on it, close steps with food in every one, pile at the end. Once the food at the end is gone I throw a toy a few times, working our way back to the truck, praise like crazy: Happy happy happy.

The one thing I do differently than most is I start with a horseshoe shaped track right from the start instead of a straight track. Later I do serpentines, some straight legs, whatever the terrain suggests and I can lay without spilling my beer or falling down... No need to teach turns that way, and I think it avoids the fast "send out" tracking we see when the dog figures out it can skip the footsteps and race straight to the pile of food, get the toy, throwing countless points out the window on the way, but pleasing the hell out of my old dogs when they find it a week later, covered in ants.

I try to start pups in either fine-disked dirt (my favorite) or lush grass (pref. clover) about 4-6" high. If there's a breeze I start the first leg with the breeze at my back and try not to turn into the wind with a beginning dog so as to build confidence. They can work  stuff like that out later when they're more seasoned. I like a sunny, warm day and let the track age at tleast 5-10 min. so the vegetation I crush with my footsteps has a chance to start the deterioration process in the sun, thereby providing a clear difference in scent between the crushed vegetation on the track and the undisturbed terrain around it. I am careful to bend over and place the food at the toe of each step so the dog has to work all the way through the footstep to get tot he treat, and try to be careful no food bounces out of the footstep to the side so there's no motivation to leave the track to find an errant reward left by a dufus tracklayer.

Another thing I do NOT do is put the line under one leg. I use a botcher harness for most dogs in the end (unless a male doesn't like the line touching his privates for some reason) but in the beginning its just a ritual, the line being attached to the fursave in the normal way. I have never figured out why people put a line under a front leg when the tracks will eventually turn both left and right. Just because I am am right-handed doesn't mean the line should be on the right. Why let a line get tangled around the dog on a left turn? Of course as we get closer to trial ready, I tangle the line around the dog all kinds of ways so they won't freak when it happens in a trial someday, along with laying every kind of screwed up turn (step off, acute, sloppy, tip toed, whatever)  stupid article placement/location, nearly nonexistent scent pad, etc. I can think of, so the dog can learn to work out the ridiculous errors in tracklaying we're bound to encounter in a trial sooner or later without leaving too many points in the field in the process. This is when it gets really fun... when you and your tracking buddy start laying awake nights dreaming of what you're going to do to each other when you lay one another's tracks the next day. Ha ha ha. Just  be sure, for safety's sake, to place an article a few feet before the four lane highway you use for "the road" so the handler can wait till there's a break in traffic to restart the dog after the ariticle.

I have plenty more up my sleeve, but you'll just have to come here and learn it for yourself. I don't have time to write a book. As I write this the articles on the counter are looking pretty attractive and the field is starting to call out to me: Shel-l-l-ey... get off the damned computer and bring me a dog...

SS