Breeding question... - Page 1

The foundation of my line  Cadette Busecker Schloss and Zilla Weiherturchen   and Zu was the greatest of females  .....and She was bred to a lLarry Filos Flusstal and Steinig Tal , and Brix Jurgenshof and Dona zur Steinbock burg   male, quite a combination   Those were the good ole days...!!!!

I wont get into the rest of the discussion, let those with all the knowledge of todays lines do that.....

OK, so the purpose of this is to create stronger nerves right?? I am not sure there is enough info to go on here, but you don't breed nervy to not nervy to get better nerves, you just do not breed nervy at all.

As far as show lines, most of them have structural faults that prevent them from doing very well in the jumps, they just cannot do it with the arched backs and the weird hock angles. I know that some of them have good character, and decent drive, but their bodies limit them greatly.

For these reasons, I would not breed show to working AT ALL. Of course with the info you gave, this is the best that I can tell you.

I do not feel my breeding experience is good enough to try that kind of combination, but I have looked into it many times and may one day consider it.  Both dogs would have to be V, kkl1, as you said, I would go for a very strong working show dog and a calm, clear headed working dog, more for genetic diversity than improving temperament- a dog with a weak temperament shouldn't be bred, period. Show/work crosses go not have to mean nervy/not nervy.  I owned a Yoschy Dollenweise/Jello Weinerau grandson that was awesome, showy color, nice structure, good medium size, super confident, drivey, but calm. HOWEVER,  the litter seemed inconsistent at maturity. Thats why I would be very hesistant, and would have to do a LOT more homework on working lines before even considering it more seriously.

My foundation female Libby is a result of a working x show mix.  She went from puppy to a few times SchH3/IPO3 Kkl2 WH and many other titles with a novice handler easily without ever failing... she has another sister who was titled in SchH and two brothers that were working police K9's.  She had two litters for me (bred to working line males) and produced several dogs working in SchH, police work, service dogs as well as other performance dogs and pets.  She also was rather consistant in what she produced, even being an outcross.  I just bred her daughter for the first time and so far the pups are awesome, they are 6 months old today.  They are also turning out to be very much like their grandmother and mom.  They are placed in SchH, SAR, Police K9 homes and so far doing very well.

Libby may not be V Kkl1.... but I will take the SG Kkl2 happily considering everything else that she is and most importantly what she produced.  Not to mention she is extremely healthy, right now at 10 years of age she still looks and works like a 5 year old, her ZW is 76 and she did not produce any known HD/ED (several were xrayed, all were not but showed no problems). 

I will be breeding my workingline female to a showline gsd this summer. I decided to do this after my females last litter didn't turn out to well. (size, the largest male is 52lb.) it was a 4,4,4 line breeding on the T-litter of von der bösen Nachbarschaft. I am doing it to open up the genetic diversity and add size and struchture. when looking for a showline dog, i wanted one that had very good working temperment and needed to be from lines that worked well also. the male i settled on is Earnhardt vom Haus Mariacher. this male is a monster in the protection work. he is 18x sch3 showed at 5 national events a couple of regional events and has made 286 once. the sire of this dog was allso a very good working dog he was 10 or 11x sch3 and made many times V in the bite work including 99 points at sch3. this dog is all "showlines" but all the dogs in his pedigree were selected for work first. so may be he is a working dog after all. he hasn't been used ( only once) as a stud. the working people will not breed to him because he is a show dog and the show people will not breed to him because he has only made SG in the ring. I believe the the dog is a GSD that has some awsome working qualities and should be used.

I have a V KKl-1 show line female that is excellent in the work - nerves, drives, temperament - everything is A+ for working, and she could show, too.  I have a V KKl-1 working line male that is excellent in the work - nerves, drives, temperament - everything is A+ for working and he has shown, too.  I don't breed them together.  The male is available to outside females, but so far no show-lines have come to him - probably because he's sable, and most show-people don't cross lines like that.  The show-line female I breed to show-line males, though there is a very small number of them "on my list" that can work, have the temperament, drives and nerves that I insist on - so for me, crossing the lines would be easy, and both dogs are suitable to do it - but nope, I'll stick with working/working (that are correct in structure) and show/show (that can work)

molly

workingdawg, I'd be interested in seeing a picture of him, if you have one. Also, I see his hips are rated as just 'fair' and generally, the hips in his pedigree aren't that great. You sound like you know your stuff, so I'm guessing your bitch has excellent hips?

sunsilver,

my female is ofa good. 5 of the 8 puppies form her last litter have been x-rayed and one is excellent and the rest good. so from the small sample of pups my female has had she seems to produce good hips. so i will take a chance.  there is no perfect dog. the dog i believe has enough super quailities to over look a ofa fair rating as long as the female has a good record with hips.

with this breeding i am NOT trying to produce the "golden middle". I am first a working person. so i select first for working qualities and this dog fits the bill and offers genetic diversity. 

IMO showline dogs are only showlines because for generations they have been selected for the show ring, and working line dog are only working line dogs because they have been selectivly bred for performance. so IMO, since the dog Earnhardt vom Haus Mariacher ancestry was selected for performance and he was selected for performance I see him as a working dog. to me a very valuable working dog for genetic diversity. after all a closed gene pool is, IMO, the death of any breed.