Seeking input regarding Stud Service/Fee's - Page 1

A friend of mine is in California, and just let a  "friend" of hers use her male for Stud Service. She let her friend pay half the stud fee up front, and now her friend is saying this dog might not be pregnant (dog is due in the next 14-20 days). They did sign a contract, basically stating the Stud Fee was non refundable but they could have a return service, to the same male, or an agreed upon male at a later date, if the female was not pregnant. (Which I have seen majority of breeders do, with regards to no money back, and only a return stud service being offered, etc)

Well long story short, the owner of the female, is refusing to finish paying the stud fee, AND has asked for a refund of what she has paid so far (half)  because she isn't sure that she wants to breed this bitch again, and even if she does want to, they "are passing" that new law in CA, so she is entitled to a refund anyhow because she will have to spay/neuter her dogs anyways, and won't need the return service.

Looking for input from other breeders, and advice on how you would handle this situation.  : )

[Darn it, Oli I still can't figure out how to get an actual smiley in here!]

Well, I just figured it out myself! First click on the smiley icon in the menu bar of the editor. That will bring up a new smiley "window". Choose your smiley of choice, and voila! Quite a few to choose from. Good Luck with your friends situation. (Sorry if I'm not Oli)

I think the stud fee agreement is different for every situation, and should be made clear up front before any agreement is made between stud dog owner and female owner.  First, if this deal was between friends, then personally I would return the entire stud fee, if the female is not pregnant and that's what my friend wanted.  No skin off my back, if I lose a stud fee - unless that was how I made a living, which in my case it isn't.  Now, if it wasn't between friends, then it is more of a business arrangement - the deal is (for my stud dog) - you pay me the stud fee in advance, my stud dog breeds your dog - I guarantee one live healthy puppy.  No live healthy puppy, then the female can come back for a repeat breeding free of charge - if that female can't come back for whatever reason, then another approved female can come in her place free of charge - with another guarantee of one live healthy puppy for that previously-paid stud fee.  That female doesn't take - then I would be happy to negotiate - yet another female comes for the same stud fee - or if that isn't possible, then maybe I would return 1/2 the stud fee if asked to.  See, it depends on the individual situation, and the agreement made between two parties - one is paying for a service, the  other is guaranteeing that service will work.  If I pay a mechanic to fix my truck, I will pick up a truck that works.  If it doesn't work, then the mechanic will go back and fix the problem and I won't pay another penny until it's fixed. 

Now, as an example of how individual situations and agreements may affect this "pay and service" deal - right now there is a female in my kennel for a breeding to my stud dog.  This female is 8 years old, this will be her last litter if she gets pregnant at all.  Her owner does not own another female.  So there will be no chance of a repeat breeding to this female or any other, in case she doesn't get pregnant.  So instead of dealing with a refund, I simply didn't charge him any stud fee.  He will pay the entire stud fee when she has at least one live healthy puppy.   And the way I can guarantee he'll pay (not that I am worried he won't) - is that as the stud dog owner, I must sign the AKC litter registration application in order for it to be processed.  No stud fee, no signature.  But I don't think that would happen -

molly

Well, this was more of a business transaction type, and this "friendship" isn't well, something that I think would be a total loss. IMO, my friend really shouldn't even be on speaking terms with this person, however it is her life, and so on. (Not my call) But this woman has been nothing but trouble from the moment my friend met her, and I just don't see why she keeps going back for more. I just figured I would get some input, from others. I run my Stud Services the same (IE, no money back, but instead repeat breedings, even with a different female if need be) and was just curious if others did the same, as I have used two outside males, and both times was told (and given in writing) their NO REFUNDS policy, and so on. And I haven't ever really had anyone come back to me asking for a refund, before so didn't quite know what others would do.

Eichenluft, how often do you allow anyone to make payments, or do you at all? And around what age, do you think a female is possibly at risk of not taking? I had someone call me recently with a 6-7 year old bitch, and they would like her bred.. and I was thinking of possibly doing something along the lines of what you did with that 8 year old you have.... is there an age cut off ? 

Oops, a few typos and misplacements in there.... sorry :::blushing::: I am still pretty darn tired.

I don't breed my females after they turn 8, I don't think 6 or 7 years is too old to breed as long as they are healthy and in good condition they should have normal litters at that age - 8 years old, they might or might not take, and they may have a small litter or have trouble whelping.  I have a female just turned 8, just bred for her last litter.  I plan on having a scheduled c-section for her sake, since the stud is large and sires large- birthweight puppies, and the litter will probably be small (small litter of large puppies would be a possible problem due to her age).

I have never taken payments for stud fee, but I'll work it out in the ways I've described.  As I said, I don't make my living breeding my dogs, and I am picky about who I allow my stud dog to breed - so he has not had so many outside females coming to  him that I've experienced every scenario that may happen.

molly

Although you might not be worried much, Molly about your particular stud arrangements, but to all who are unfamiliar with AKC guidelines.  AKC will still register any litter, born from pure bred AKC registered dogs,  without the signature of the stud dog owner.  You cannot use monetary reasons for not signing a litter registration form.  Unless you have a stud dog agreement in place, specifing reasons you will not sign the litter registrations other than monetary reasons, AKC will register that litter, also AKC has the right to ban stud dog owners from registering any dog, in the future, for refusing to sign a litter registration for monetary reasons.

Tony

Your really generous MOLLY... I had a bad experience with the last breeding I had... Was supposed to be with an IMPORT and the verbal agreement  was a downpayment (actual fee of a local bred) plus a puppy share for the stud owner...No one told me the stud owner has to get the litter pick... pap smears where done to ensure the female is in the correct stage of heat... did not take place...what is terrible is knowing that the import (supposed to be the Progeny group winner in the GSD nationals) had to be rested for health reasons ( I've heard from one of the handlers'... the stud was over-used and sperms degenerate) none of the bitches serviced got pregnant... So on the repeat breeding the import was not available and a local Champ was used... bitch gave birth to healthy pups... now the middleman of the stud owner is demanding for a puppy share (LITTER PICK) I had to lie during the signing of papers that only one survived and nevermind the pedigrees of the siblings because I'm only keeping one and this bitch was not bred for profit (it was a good bitch and proven). I understand that...after the repeat breeding... and still did not conceived the stud fee will be forfeited... but " will you still have to stick to the original agreement if a different stud was used..???" I will not be a scrooge and not be willing to share a pup since I can only raise one at a time... but to demand for the litter pick... it pissed me OFF..." Any thoughts...???

Have anice day...        ...    the best is ...     :)

Wow Marci, that's awful. I am a little confused though, as to why you had to lie and say only one puppy survived?

I guess that depends on how close they are with this friend, if a close doggy friend of mine wants to use a male of mine, I dont charge them a stud fee.  Otherwise, fees are always due up front and are never refundable, although if the bitch does not take or only whelps one live pup another breeding would be given (not necc. to that same bitch).  Thats generally how things work, I have never heard of a fee that was refundable, I don't think that exists in the dog buisness.