OFA and ZW - Page 1

Do people, or shall I say novice producers, really get away with ads like OFA ZW so and so? Are buyers that unaware that OFA does not do ZW? I think ads for pups to potential buyers should be more accurate. I think that this will mislead so so many. Just like saying this dog has so many top dogs but is nothing itself!!!

I am not trying to complain...but rather educate so people who really are trying to do the right thing don't get stupid questions from buyers after talking to one of the above mentioned!!!!!!!

Example...

Dam is blah blah... OFA, DNA, ZW85. Seriously...what are you trying to tell the buyers about the dog??? So for the ones that do this...can you please tell me how and why you do this or where you get this info? And I don't think dogs under 2 will have OFA if I am not mistaken...

I just get so many calls saying well so and so says this and this dog has 50 VA's. But the parents of the pups have not proven anything.

Just curious here...maybe I am totally missing something....

under 24months ad can say ofa  as it is a prelim  and u do get it on a certified paper as a prelim....You have Ofa and Zw and your stud is DNA , ofa and Zw ...Why not , if It came from Europe and then you are in trial here and want an updated hip. which all breeders or trainers trialing a dog , get an OFA even  at  64 months.....
If your sire or dam has all the paperwork , why not advertise it...? and the pups are out of those parents , and it gets the public to know you have been careful to breed with adults of those advantages....of course , buyers should ask for paperwork , and research themselves , if they are legit...

Exactly Yellow Rose. It can be legit if the dog was imported and then OFA'd.  Allot of people do OFA even if the A stamp was done in Germany. If my dog had a ZW# and OFA was excellent I would deffinatly put that out there.

Neohaus, I think I understand what you are saying. A German Shepherd dog can have an "a" stamp and a ZW awarded if the ancestors are registered with the S.V. and their ZW's are known, even if the dog is born outside of Germany. This same dog can have an O.F.A. rating if it as least twenty-four (24) months old and it's radiographs were examined and scored as passing by the O.F.A... But as you have mentioned, the O.F.A. does not award ZW-that is only done by the S.V..

Puppies registered with the S.V. are born with a ZW that is calculated from the average of the parents. Of course this number can rise or fall (as can the parents' number) when the puppies are past twelve (12) months of age and their radiographs are examined by the S.V. and a ZW awarded on the S.V.'s database. This same puppy could be purchased, sent to North America, and receive an O.F.A. rating, but not until it is at least twenty-four (24) months of age. Of course it could receive a preliminary rating from the O.F.A. that is of course not the final determination, and this can be done as early as four (4) months of age.

A puppy (or young dog) can have both a ZW and an O.F.A. rating, but I agree that it is confusing unless one knows "who scored what" and who had to be involved for this to happen.

Now, before the S.V. began to require radiographic examinations and scoring of the elbows, many who imported an "a" stamped dog to North America had the elbows evaluated by the O.F.A.. The big question is who made the DNA determination, because as far as I know the A.K.C. and the S.V. do not use systems that can be cross referenced. Anyone feel free to correct me on this!

So in essence, a dog can have a ZW, and O.F.A. and a DNA analysis but it's parents must have been "a" stamped and registered with the S.V.. It could have DNA registered to either or both the S.V. and the A.K.C.. It can also have an O.F.A. evaluation. I think the point that you are trying to make is that unless one knows which questions to ask and which documents to examine, one can easily purchase a dog who is a victim of misleading or questionable advertisement.

Regards,

Bob-O

Thanks everyone..

I do know all this. My point was to the ones doing this. Most I see with this are NOT imported, parent;s are NOT imported or hip certified by either SV or OFA. Therefore the claims baffled me.

I can give an example privately if anyone is interested. It would shed some more light.

And Bob-O..as always I enjoyed reading your post. You are very accurate and thorough!!!

I have a two males that were bred/born here (one bred by us) with a ZW# (i assumed they were born with one, just wasnt posted on the SV database until after they had their 'a' stamp)  My one, Brisko vom haus Weinbrand has pink papers, is OFA Excellent, 'a' normal and has a ZW of 74, So IF i wanted to advertise him (i wouldnt because he is LH, BUT if i wanted to) i could say OFA, ZW74 and not be fudging the truth.

My other male Magic von der Huelhin haus doesnt have pink papers, but could of, the breeder just didnt register them with the SV, he is 'a' normal and 'z' normal with a ZW# of 72, i will do OFA sometime when i get time, when i do and if i advertise him at stud or for puppies i could do the same thing.  OFA, ZW72. 

I think its just some peopels way of listing it in a hurry, just like people dont put a show rating but list that the dog is koer'd. But i bet there are some people out there who just throw that in there to look like a better dog.

Jessica