The betterment of the breed............... - Page 1

I want to say a couple of things (to the newbies here) that I have learned over 40 years in the dog world.

You will meet many here who profess to breed only for the betterment of the breed. To promote the GSD, they breed 2, 3, 4, 5, litters a year and offer pups at $2000 and up. But this is only because they love the breed.  If you are lucky, you can get a rare long coat at the same price, because now they are special.

So here is what I want to say, If you are a breeder and breeding anything past what you want to produce for yourself or support your own habit and claim it is for the breed, then I am calling you a damn liar. You are breeding dogs as livestock.

But all this shit posted here about how concerned you are with the breed, how concerned with how you are with where your pups go (that you bred with no intention of keeping) I am calling bullshit on.

Honestly, lets get to the mat on this crap.

Rick Atchley

Seriously, if you're only breeding for yourself, how are you improving the breed? You're improving your own dogs.

If you only breed "for yourself" does that mean you cull every puppy you don't keep for yourself? 

If "good breeders" are only breeding "for themselves" where is someone else to go to get a good dog?

I like to get serious. So lets do so. If you are not breeding GSD for your self, then why are you breeding them. for Law Enforcement, military, SAR. and to a lesser degree, sport and show, these are the legitimate reasons I see for breeding GSD.  Am I missing something.

Oh yea, I forgot, pet market @ a few grand a year so mom doesn't have to work a real job. But I'm sure you only do it for the breed.

So, lets get into what was the last dog you bred that contributed to the breed and what is it that you do that you consider yourself a good breeder. 

just in the interest of discussion and the betterment of the breed.

Rick Atchley 

Let's see. From my last couple of litters there are three dogs training in SAR, one in training to be a service/assistance dog, one is herding, one is going to be a therapy dog assisting a human psychologist, a couple training for AKC obed/rally competition, at least one in competitive agility training, one training in schutzhund/personal protection, and a handful who are excellent companions and best friends.

But say you are a pet person and you want to get a *good* dog--one that you may go into more advanced training with or maybe not--but you want a nice GSD that you can trust around your kid, that shows good judgment and is gentle with your kid but bold in new environments. Where should you go to get that dog?

I'll be going to you Blackthorne!  Or.... a breeder like you. 

 I'm a selfish bitch and I breed for myself.

That means, I breed only if I see what I like to see in a dog, if I see something that not every other dog out there being bred is offering just as much of. I don't see the need for all this duplication; if you don't truly think what you're producing is just a tad different (in a good way) and meets a certain need, then by all means, quit. We have no shortage of dogs or GSDs, period. 

My oldest pups are not even 2, and I think for their age, they are quite accomplished. I couldn't be happier. They turned out just as I'd hoped in both temperament and physical characteristics. I have several doing real work and one certified in several gov't security venues AS WELL AS specialized SAR venues at only a year of age. Kudos to the very experienced handler, obviously, but imo, that's a lot for a 12month old, and no, I don't believe that "just any old" well-bred pup could do that. I think what I'd planned and the type dogs I selected complemented well and the proof is in the pudding. 

A couple are well on their way to their sport titles, but they are not simply "sport dogs"; they are family members. I have gotten a couple emails from TDs complimenting the dogs and their maturity level and seriousness for their age. To me, that's huge in terms of versatility because I didn't breed them to be excellent at sport. I bred them to be able to do what is asked of them and do it well. One such pup I was complimented on was only 4 mos. old. The same things keep being said about them, over and over by unrelated people, so I think there must be some truth in it, so I'm thrilled. Thrilled that the vision I had/have that I wanted to create is indeed also working for others in completely different venues. 

Rik, I agree wholeheartedly. Say you're good at breeding dogs (some are not!) and want some extra money to help feed your own dogs. Christine, I also agree. How can you really improve on what's out there unless you put something different out there and enough of it to make a difference? This is where I have problems; my heart won't let me produce enough to do that because I lose too much sleep over where each and every one of them goes. I am not only a selfish bitch; I'm a control freak, and it feels like blood money to me if I'm not totally ecstatic over the life that dog leads. 

Having never bred a litter of Pups in 60 years with dogs i can partly agree with Rik. The way i see it is this,
 Anyone who owns a couple of good Females, Firstly they must be Joint tested officially and of Breedable value to me that is paramount above all else,
 If they are and have done some work in one way or the other to test there Temperament better still.
Now if they are of that quality and are very well bred themelves  i see no reason why mated to a suitable class male the owner cannot breed pups.
Hopefully for the Pups to do a job of work not solely for pets, What i do think is wrong is for a person to abuse the Females by breeding from them too often, if they do that then 'Yes', i would say they are in it for financial gain and not to try and better anything other than there pockets,
 There are many about like that, Hopefully there are some who think the same way that  Rik and i do.
Steve1

Rik, if everyone bred this way, what would the shelters workers do for a living? 

I totally agree. There are too many GSD breeders out there running high-class puppy mills!

You can say what you want about Tina Barber (founder of the Shiloh breed) but her bitches produce 3 or maybe 4 litters MAX, and then they are rehomed to pet homes free of charge. As the Shiloh is a rare breed, Tina would have every reason to pump out as many puppies as possible, but she doesn't. All puppies are sold on a spay/neuter contract, unless the buyer is willing to become one of her licensed breeders, and follow HER rules. 

The problem with this conversation is that the people who would benefit from it will not be the ones who will read or respond to it.

And if we chastise and admonish the people who are seeking to breed responsibly (those who might care enough to read this thread or even a forum discussing GSDs), we're left with only those who are just in it for the money--true puppymills breeding for the pet shops and large-scale "corporate-style" breeders putting out a product--or backyard breeders who decided to let Rex and Queenie have a few puppies because hey, their friends wanted a puppy and "they were cute."

In the last year, I've seen a number of prescriptive definitions of a "good breeder" -- a good breeder never breeds back to back; a good breeder only breeds when he or she wants to keep a puppy; a good breeder always sells most of the puppies before they're born; a good breeder always sells on limited registration; a good breeder never sells on limited registration--and so on.

Instead, how about we define a good breeder, a responsible breeder as someone who takes a thinking approach to breeding dogs; someone who makes sure their dogs meet some definable criteria and have something positive to offer to the people who will own/love/work/live with their puppies; someone who seeks to avoid health and temperament problems in their puppies; someone who stands behind the puppies they produce, deals honorably with clients, and seeks to obtain and share information about the breed and their dogs.

I think this chart does an excellent job of defining good versus bad breeders:

www.gsdca.org/german-shepherd-dogs/choosing-a-puppy/types-of-breeders