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by Jenni78 on 19 July 2010 - 02:07
A GSD should not necessarily have a natural retrieve. Chase, catch, keep- that's natural. Returning is NOT natural for a GSD.
Just sayin'. I know it's picky and has zilch to do w/the topic, but for some reason, that irks me when people talk about "natural retrieves" in GSDs. They're not retrievers! ;-)
I will take an untitled dog that I know personally or have worked myself over a titled unfamiliar dog any day.
Just sayin'. I know it's picky and has zilch to do w/the topic, but for some reason, that irks me when people talk about "natural retrieves" in GSDs. They're not retrievers! ;-)
I will take an untitled dog that I know personally or have worked myself over a titled unfamiliar dog any day.
by NoCurs on 19 July 2010 - 03:07
Well, read Scott and Fuller, and some stuff about early guide dog tests and results. GSD SHOULD have strong "pack drive" (I actually hate that term, but it seems to be the vogue these days) which includes cooperation with the packleader, and a strong desire to "work together" be it hunting, herding, etc.
Very few of our purebred dogs are bred specifically for "retrieving", but you will find that most trainers look for just that trait when picking out a good working prospect. YOu can pick the pup that ignores you, or even fights you over the ball, but I would not say that dog is showing the useful, biddable drives a working dog should have.
Lord, pit bulls sure as heck weren't bred to retrieve, just go out, latch on and hang on for dear life, but the better ones have a strong prey drive and an even stronger "retrieve" drive. I have NEVER had to put a forced retrieve on any of my titled dogs (including SchH IIIs and AKC HIT winners) as they are biddable dogs who respect and LOVE TO WORK WITH the owner.
I don't think a dog is "tough" because it blows off its owner. I just think it lacks useful pack drive.
Very few of our purebred dogs are bred specifically for "retrieving", but you will find that most trainers look for just that trait when picking out a good working prospect. YOu can pick the pup that ignores you, or even fights you over the ball, but I would not say that dog is showing the useful, biddable drives a working dog should have.
Lord, pit bulls sure as heck weren't bred to retrieve, just go out, latch on and hang on for dear life, but the better ones have a strong prey drive and an even stronger "retrieve" drive. I have NEVER had to put a forced retrieve on any of my titled dogs (including SchH IIIs and AKC HIT winners) as they are biddable dogs who respect and LOVE TO WORK WITH the owner.
I don't think a dog is "tough" because it blows off its owner. I just think it lacks useful pack drive.
by Sangreinu on 19 July 2010 - 05:07
There are many surefire ways to see if a dog is breed worthy... unfortunately trails and schutzhund isn't one of them. It's great in theory, but there is nothing that says a schutzhund pro dog will be any good working on a farm with livestock.
by NoCurs on 19 July 2010 - 05:07
Schutzhund was not developed to test "farm work".
by Sangreinu on 19 July 2010 - 05:07
true,
but all I really meant to say is that having a schutzhund title in todays world is no guarantee that the dog would be a practical choice in doing real world work.
but all I really meant to say is that having a schutzhund title in todays world is no guarantee that the dog would be a practical choice in doing real world work.
by spernagsds on 20 July 2010 - 02:07
I think it's great if you work towards titling your dogs and you all are to be commended for your dedication and loyalty to our breed. Kudos to you... :)
I have two dogs with great pedigrees and nice bloodlines. They are currently the only untitled dogs in their pedigrees.
I am currently working one for accelerant detection and the other for search and rescue. I have plans to certify and utilize both dogs in and around our community and state. I will have hips and elbows rated (one is not old enough) and I don't favor breeding before two.
I do have plans to breed this pair. Probably not at age two or age three and maybe not even at four but I will eventually provided they both prove themselves in their line of work. If one or the other don't seem to make the grade, I will be the first to step up and spay or neuter..
Now these dogs certainly will not have the 'Titles' as most of you speak of titles but I believe they will have more then their share of opportunities to prove themselves breeding worthy in their jobs.
I am more of an ability over paper person... I love Schutzhund, it's awesome. In the long run though, I want to see a 'real' dog work, a 'real' working dog, not a sport dog. (ouch) no offense.
Regards to everyone, JMO
Shannan :)
I have two dogs with great pedigrees and nice bloodlines. They are currently the only untitled dogs in their pedigrees.
I am currently working one for accelerant detection and the other for search and rescue. I have plans to certify and utilize both dogs in and around our community and state. I will have hips and elbows rated (one is not old enough) and I don't favor breeding before two.
I do have plans to breed this pair. Probably not at age two or age three and maybe not even at four but I will eventually provided they both prove themselves in their line of work. If one or the other don't seem to make the grade, I will be the first to step up and spay or neuter..
Now these dogs certainly will not have the 'Titles' as most of you speak of titles but I believe they will have more then their share of opportunities to prove themselves breeding worthy in their jobs.
I am more of an ability over paper person... I love Schutzhund, it's awesome. In the long run though, I want to see a 'real' dog work, a 'real' working dog, not a sport dog. (ouch) no offense.
Regards to everyone, JMO
Shannan :)
by NoCurs on 20 July 2010 - 03:07
That's cool too. My foundation bitch is an explosives detection dog with the state police... but that IS a title... she has to certify for real. I have no problem with "real world dogs" getting real world certification.
by spernagsds on 20 July 2010 - 03:07
Nocurs... Yes, accelerant detection has to certified for as well. VERY exciting, in fact, I am a full time criminal justice student so I can work her in arson investigations myself.. This female will be my 'new' foundation bitch... She is very intense and a very deep thinker. I am excited to see how things pan out with her...
Regards
Shannan :)
Regards
Shannan :)
by Two Moons on 20 July 2010 - 04:07
Titles and ribbons do not solely make for wise breeding decisions, and any smart breeder knows that.
A true breeder knows what he's looking for.
You don't know what you get until you have it.
No short cuts, the test is time.
A true breeder knows what he's looking for.
You don't know what you get until you have it.
No short cuts, the test is time.
by Sam Spade on 20 July 2010 - 12:07
Whenever I see a dog that doesn't have it in them to do protection, I always think about Search and Rescue or scentwork.
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