What makes a working line gsd breed worthy? - Page 7

Continued.....

I also have trained both of them in Police K9 work (building searches, area searches, crowd control, explosives/Narc detection etc.) BUT even if I did not have titles on paper, i have tons of video to prove it to whoever wants to know. The titles prove they can work and the video's show the strengh in their work.

So, even though I agree titles don't mean everything....I have no repsect for people who use that statement as an excuse not to put in the effort to title or train their dogs to a high standard.

Regards,
Melanie Becker

www.BojovnikaK9.com

Melanie
Well said, could not have put it better myself
Steve1

Well put Melanie, but the question being: "What makes a working line gsd breed worthy?" is not answered by Titles and such achievements.  You are right to say that you must see the dog work, or at least show the ability/drives to work.


IMPO, most of what we do to ensure that a dogis fit to breed really does not show that the dog is going to produce the next great dog/bitch, but to reduce the likelihood that he/she may produce a litter of duds.  Even at that, some fine dogs produce one or more soft dogs in their litters.  Like in many things as dicey as genetics, progress tends to be achived by the reduction of risk in the equation.  And even then, you have yet to factor in the early foundation work that can make or break a pup for work.

So, even though I agree titles don't mean everything....I have no repsect for people who use that statement as an excuse not to put in the effort to title or train their dogs to a high standard.

Perfect!

 NICE POST MELANIE .. I AGREE WITH ALL YOU WRITE .. ALTHOUGH .. I READ YOUR POST THOROUGHLY .... " NO RESPECT FOR... PEOPLE WHO DON'T TRAIN THEIR DOGS ... TO A HIGH STANDARD '. NOW .. WITHOUT AGREEING OR DISAGREEING TO THAT STATEMENT .. THE INFERENCE IS THAT PEOPLE WHO TRAIN .. AND NOT TO A HIGH STANDARD ... I GUESS YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THEM ... AND ?? WHAT IS A HIGH STANDARD ????  YOU TRAIN PSA , POLICE .. imo VERY VERY HIGH STANDARDS .. AND YOUR ANDY .. SENSATIONAL .. QUITE THE WORTHY GSD.. THAT IS MY GIST ABOUT TITLES  .. ?? SCH .. so   WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE AND SOME HIGH MEMBERS OF THE  SV  WHO GET A SCH 1 FEMALE , WITH ONLY THE GOAL TO SHOW THEIR FEMALE FOR HIGH SHOW RATINGS ... AGAIN MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS .. MINIMUM ,JUST TO GET THE DOG INTO SHOW. NOT HIGH STANDARDS IN THE LEAST. , NOT LIKE PSA , BELGIUM , MONDIO .. POLICE  -- YOU HAVE RESPECT FOR A MINIMUM REQUIREMENT / FOR THEM .. SUCH A LOW  AND NON-HIGH STANDARD ?? AND YOU KNOW ..YOU HAVE DONE THE SPORTS !! . MOST ..NOT ALL but MOST SCH GSDS WOULDN'T STAND A CHANCE IN PSA KNVP RING.. I GUESS IN YOUR EYES ALL THOSE DOGS ARE NOT BREED WORTHY .. ARE THEY ?? i ONCE CONVERSED WITH A FRIEND WHILE  IN EUROPE  .. AND ASKED ABOUT THE BITE WORK / TRIAL  , WHY SO MINIMUM FOR SCH & , WHY  EVERY ASPECT OF THE TRIAL  PERFORMED  EXERCISES WITHOUT  LEASH /COLLAR .. THE RESPONSE.. ' YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND ... ALL THE REQUIREMENTS ARE MINIMUM [ A LOT MORE TIME TO GET 100% OFF LEASH CONTROL FOR EVERY EXERCISE] ,  AT  ONE TIME THE DOG PRACTICLY JUST HAD TO BITE , PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE TIME  TO TRAIN LIKE YOU .. THEY HAVE TO GET THE LEAST DONE TO GET THAT DOG INTO THE SHOW ! THE OTHER STUFF ISN'T IMPORTANT ! THE SHOW IS !  i GUESS ?? ONE CALLS THAT A HIGH STANDARD ??  SO THEN  ...  WHAT IS THE BAR .. THE WORKING STANDARD, THE CRITERIA  THAT DOES MAKE THE DOG BREED WORTHY IN THE FORUM'S OPINION ? STATING IN AGREEMENT BY US   .. THAT THE TRAINED STANDARD SHOULD '"BE HIGH " ??? 

Alphapup are you bringing  high lines into this discussion is  of working lines? 

Let's not get all frothed up on rhetoric.  Those are probably general statements.  There are also breeders who try to tittle every single one of their dogs, or send them to trainers to be titled and KKL'd so their litters sell better than they should because many buyers don''t understand that there are many ways to compel a titte performance out of a dog, and not all of them rely on genetic predisposition.  If we're looking at tittled dogs, then the bar moves up to the level of performance and how often does the dog emulate its high scores and in how many different venues.

Many people who have day-jobs and families may not be able to train to national (or even regional) competition standards, or lack the inclination to train their pup in protection, yet that may not necessarily mean that their dog is not breed-worthy.  That basically leaves SAR, agility and sheep-herding.

 SUE .. YES .. I DID BRING IN THE HIGH LINES ..SIMILAR  SHORTCOMINGS EXIST IN BOTH AVENUES[ STRUCTURE , HEALTH , WORKING ABILITIES] . SO .. FOR POINT EXAMPLE I GAVE THE SHOW LINE STORY .. BUT .. DITTO STORY .. YOU THINK THAT EVERY WORKING LINE  GSD CAN DO KNVP , PSA , BELGIUM , FRENCH RING.. THE FACT OF THE MATTER VERY VERY FEE GSD DO YOU SEE  WITH THOSE TITLES. [ AT LEAST IN THE USA  FOR SURE]. SO IF A PROTECTION SPORT / TRAINING L TITLING IS THE CONSENSUS OF THE FORUM THAT DEEMS THE DOG BREED WORTHY .. ALL THAT I AM ASKING ... WHAT IS THE BAR THAT SETS BREED WORTHINESS. i ASKED FOR OPINIONS . I AM NOT JUDGMENTAL . ONLY CURIOUS TO REPLIES. btw .. A FEW YEARS AGO ... [FORGOT THE SPECIFICS] ONE OF THE BIGGEST SCH TRIALS IN GERMANY : THE UMBER OF GSDS WAS DWARFED BY THE NUMBER OF MALS COMPETING .. THIS GREATLY SADDENED ME AS I HAVE HAD GSDS MY ENTIRE LIFE. SO .. THAT SAID ... IS THE BAR TO HIGH OR TO LOW 

I worked a dog...Huan vom Talka Marda...his dam was...2nd place WUSV 2002, brother was 3 place SV Bundes FCI 2005 half brother to Javir vom Talka Marda...same dam...he was owned by a friend of mine. He was one of the best dogs I've ever had the priviledge to work and know. Unfortunately, my friend had no idea how to train this dog. He was sold to Finland where he went on to bite his new handler...who had no clue how to train/bond with this dog.He was absolutely fearless and showed it in everything he did....intense always but compliant. I would have bred to him...no questions asked! He finally got his Sch1 

If you have a Dog who has its Titles to 3 with good scores and is up to Country - WUSV standard, This Dog has been Korclassed 1 or 11, Its Joints are a normal you cannot get better joints than that anywhere in the world, so it is according to our rules breed worthy.
Now many of you Guys think it is not breed worthy, So it seems to me that unless it is a working Police dog, A detection Dog and i mentioned this before without one answer, It is told they do not breed from detection dogs whilst working, because it ruins them for the job they are doing
 French Ring or Belgian ring, SAR etc all these other dogs are acceptable for breeding by most of you Guys
But where is the breed worthiness bits of these dogs do you think they are breed worthy without being tested for that fact The working towards KKL1 or 11, The Joints none of these points are mentioned in the dogs doing this work, people simply think they are more worthy to breed from without the Korclasse or Joint's score
To me the Joints and the Korclasse is more important than the work, It proves the Dog is within the boundaries set out without it you may as well breed from any dog that looks like a German Shepherd on the street no matter what the work
Steve1