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by Jenni78 on 13 October 2010 - 12:10
Like I stated before, the little white spot on chest or even toes generally will disappear or become less noticeable and has NOTHING to do with poor pigment. It is an entirely different gene. Not to say you won't ever see it on a poorly pigmented dog, but they're not necessarily a package deal.
Capri has super pigment. So do the males I have bred her to; I'm pretty picky about pigment. All of her last litter had varying size white specks on their chest, and the little girl had a white tip on her toe which was gone by the time she was walking.
As an aside, you can have a black dog with poor pigment. It's a total myth that breeding a black dog will improve pigment. Light gums, light eyes, light nails, can all occur and are signs of pigment loss- just because the coat is black doesn't mean the dog has good pigment. My black male has better pigment than my black female. His gums are solid black except for a few pink spots, his eyes are so dark they're hard to distinguish in pictures. My female has average colored eyes- not light, but not super dark, and average pigmentation in her mouth. She did have a white spot that went away. It has/had nothing to do w/her level of pigmentation.
An old breeder friend explained the white spot as being indicative of certain older working lines, and just as he predicted, when I bred Capri to a dog similarly bred to herself, ALL of them had the white spots. The last litter (outcross) had NONE. Did she throw poor pigment her second litter? I think not! It's insignificant. Completely insignificant.
Capri has super pigment. So do the males I have bred her to; I'm pretty picky about pigment. All of her last litter had varying size white specks on their chest, and the little girl had a white tip on her toe which was gone by the time she was walking.
As an aside, you can have a black dog with poor pigment. It's a total myth that breeding a black dog will improve pigment. Light gums, light eyes, light nails, can all occur and are signs of pigment loss- just because the coat is black doesn't mean the dog has good pigment. My black male has better pigment than my black female. His gums are solid black except for a few pink spots, his eyes are so dark they're hard to distinguish in pictures. My female has average colored eyes- not light, but not super dark, and average pigmentation in her mouth. She did have a white spot that went away. It has/had nothing to do w/her level of pigmentation.
An old breeder friend explained the white spot as being indicative of certain older working lines, and just as he predicted, when I bred Capri to a dog similarly bred to herself, ALL of them had the white spots. The last litter (outcross) had NONE. Did she throw poor pigment her second litter? I think not! It's insignificant. Completely insignificant.
by beetree on 13 October 2010 - 13:10
Interesting about the "old line" dogs and that the white spot appears horizontally. When we got our first GSD pup, solid black, from the dog pound in the 70's, he had a small white spot, that we thought looked like a "T" . So we named him Teddy. His white spot reduced over time but never completely went away. He was incredibly smart and quite the landshark as a puppy. He was probably thought of as awful because of that white spot, to end up at the pound when his ears weren't even up.
by Ninja181 on 13 October 2010 - 13:10
Here is Silbersee's comments on the same subject from a different thread.
Recessive Gene Question
by Silbersee on 25 April 2008 - 01:04
Silbersee
Posts: 1316
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 07:30 pm
Cute puppies, Mirasmom. If I was looking for a Lab that would be exactly the one I'd want.
The white spot on the chest is tolerated and if it is not too significant, it won't be critized. The same goes for the white toes and feet. Our sable male has a white spot on the chest and a couple light toes and he passes that on to a couple of his offspring. He was never faulted for it. Lots of dogs in Germany have them.
Look at this dog: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/394766.html . He was a top rated dog in Europe. Due to his dark pigment, the white spot is very obvious. It would be interesting to see how a black dog with a white spot is rated in the show ring, but black dogs are generally at the end of a class anyway, unfortunately.
Recessive Gene Question
by Silbersee on 25 April 2008 - 01:04
Silbersee
Posts: 1316
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 07:30 pm
Cute puppies, Mirasmom. If I was looking for a Lab that would be exactly the one I'd want.
The white spot on the chest is tolerated and if it is not too significant, it won't be critized. The same goes for the white toes and feet. Our sable male has a white spot on the chest and a couple light toes and he passes that on to a couple of his offspring. He was never faulted for it. Lots of dogs in Germany have them.
Look at this dog: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/394766.html . He was a top rated dog in Europe. Due to his dark pigment, the white spot is very obvious. It would be interesting to see how a black dog with a white spot is rated in the show ring, but black dogs are generally at the end of a class anyway, unfortunately.
by nonacona60 on 21 October 2010 - 08:10
Ninja, the address you posted is no longer in the database...Interestingly enough, it has been removed.........Wonder why? Any idea?
by Prager on 21 October 2010 - 14:10
No it is there.
You got to keep in mind total dog. White spot is not important even so that dog's spot is too big for my taste. I would not eliminate such dog from breeding is everything else is good. or excellent. Then I would take such litter select pups without the white spot with all the other qualities I desire and breed that. But there are so many good dogs that this would have to be a really super dog in order to incorporate him into the breeding program of my dogs. People breed noch zugelassen many times in a pedigreed of a dog which in my book is a big problem but then they will freak out over a white spot on a chest. Breeding is a compromise. I do not like white spot and I would not breed it generally speaking. But I would not say that I would never breed it. Geman SL have it often.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
You got to keep in mind total dog. White spot is not important even so that dog's spot is too big for my taste. I would not eliminate such dog from breeding is everything else is good. or excellent. Then I would take such litter select pups without the white spot with all the other qualities I desire and breed that. But there are so many good dogs that this would have to be a really super dog in order to incorporate him into the breeding program of my dogs. People breed noch zugelassen many times in a pedigreed of a dog which in my book is a big problem but then they will freak out over a white spot on a chest. Breeding is a compromise. I do not like white spot and I would not breed it generally speaking. But I would not say that I would never breed it. Geman SL have it often.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by Blkdog on 21 October 2010 - 15:10
I have always seen white tips/toes on pups, I thought it has always been pretty common.
Here is my little monster with her white toes!!! lol All 4 were white (tips/toes), the front feet tips are pretty much gone now, she still has white toes on the back but is slowly disappearing... She has 2-3 toes that are white on the back, but noticed that the red hairs are already coming through and the white is fading!!! I wander if it has anything to do with their puppy coat shedding? Because she is losing all of her puppy fuzz and losing the white toes as well... I still love her and she is an absolute wonderful pup with wonderful drives and the white toes has not effected her willingness to BITE!!! lol Sorry for the quality of the pics, I was using my cell and it really does not do her color justice.
My Lexi!!!! 3 mos old
Here is my little monster with her white toes!!! lol All 4 were white (tips/toes), the front feet tips are pretty much gone now, she still has white toes on the back but is slowly disappearing... She has 2-3 toes that are white on the back, but noticed that the red hairs are already coming through and the white is fading!!! I wander if it has anything to do with their puppy coat shedding? Because she is losing all of her puppy fuzz and losing the white toes as well... I still love her and she is an absolute wonderful pup with wonderful drives and the white toes has not effected her willingness to BITE!!! lol Sorry for the quality of the pics, I was using my cell and it really does not do her color justice.
My Lexi!!!! 3 mos old
by OGBS on 21 October 2010 - 22:10
My white male GSD, Wilhelm, has one black hair where his back meets his tail.
So far, it hasn't caused him any problems. He functions perfectly!
I can not believe some of the utterly ignorant posts made by some of you in this topic.
Take the time to think about how stupid it was to eliminate white GSD's, or any of the other "banned" GSD's from the genetic pool.
Let me see, .........who was Horand's maternal gradsire???????
So far, it hasn't caused him any problems. He functions perfectly!
I can not believe some of the utterly ignorant posts made by some of you in this topic.
Take the time to think about how stupid it was to eliminate white GSD's, or any of the other "banned" GSD's from the genetic pool.
Let me see, .........who was Horand's maternal gradsire???????
by nonacona60 on 21 October 2010 - 23:10
OGBS,
I have no problem with the white or any other color at all....... The purpose of the OP was to get opinions about how people felt about white spots...... The statement made, that I notice the appearance of white more and more lately, was made because I obviously never really paid attention to it before...... I simply stated that a person made a decision not to purchase a puppy because of the white on the puppy.....I have never let the white spot be a factor in deciding anything about a puppy or dog since our solid blk boy has a thin white line on his chest....which is going away as he gets older....
I think the thread was turned into what it became for someone else's agenda, as many threads are done......MY OP was never intended to create a debate or an argument......
The title," AWFUL LITTLE WHITE SPOT" was made with sarcasm, as most here understood that....Only a few turned that to mean an entirely different thing....... Guess its a matter of interpretation and what
a person's agenda is....JMO
I have no problem with the white or any other color at all....... The purpose of the OP was to get opinions about how people felt about white spots...... The statement made, that I notice the appearance of white more and more lately, was made because I obviously never really paid attention to it before...... I simply stated that a person made a decision not to purchase a puppy because of the white on the puppy.....I have never let the white spot be a factor in deciding anything about a puppy or dog since our solid blk boy has a thin white line on his chest....which is going away as he gets older....
I think the thread was turned into what it became for someone else's agenda, as many threads are done......MY OP was never intended to create a debate or an argument......
The title," AWFUL LITTLE WHITE SPOT" was made with sarcasm, as most here understood that....Only a few turned that to mean an entirely different thing....... Guess its a matter of interpretation and what
a person's agenda is....JMO
by Louise M. Penery on 22 October 2010 - 01:10
Larger areas of white on the chest may not disappear and are due to the white-spotting gene that runs in certain show lines.
by nonacona60 on 22 October 2010 - 14:10
The page you requested does not exist in our index anymore
Either you have mistyped the URL, it has expired, or been removed
Pedigree Database front page
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Prager, this is what I get when I do a copy and paste of the URL from the post. I have tried several times, over several days and this messages still appears. Not sure why this message pops up...What is the dog's name? I will do a pedigree search... I just wanted to see what Ninja was talking about....
Either you have mistyped the URL, it has expired, or been removed
Pedigree Database front page
*******************************************************
Prager, this is what I get when I do a copy and paste of the URL from the post. I have tried several times, over several days and this messages still appears. Not sure why this message pops up...What is the dog's name? I will do a pedigree search... I just wanted to see what Ninja was talking about....
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