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by Ninja181 on 10 March 2010 - 20:03
Lav
Just watched the second video a few more times.
This is my take, Dar at first is barking warning the decoy not to come closer. The decoy of course does and the dog becomes very agitated. He lunges at one point and I think he definitely would have bit him.
Now the curve ball here is the decoy has something in his left hand that you can't see in the video, when the Dog sees it his barking changes to what we were talking about before Bark Bark pause Bark Bark, so I believe the decoy has something in his left hand the Dog recognizes and wants. Maybe his ball, a treat or a familiar toy. But the Dogs barking and focus definitely changes when he sees something and it appears to be in the left hand of the decoy.
Just watched the second video a few more times.
This is my take, Dar at first is barking warning the decoy not to come closer. The decoy of course does and the dog becomes very agitated. He lunges at one point and I think he definitely would have bit him.
Now the curve ball here is the decoy has something in his left hand that you can't see in the video, when the Dog sees it his barking changes to what we were talking about before Bark Bark pause Bark Bark, so I believe the decoy has something in his left hand the Dog recognizes and wants. Maybe his ball, a treat or a familiar toy. But the Dogs barking and focus definitely changes when he sees something and it appears to be in the left hand of the decoy.
by steve1 on 10 March 2010 - 21:03
LAVK -9
I too am not sure what you are saying
in your heading post you give this information and nothing else plus all there is to see in 16 seconds of video is a vehicle with a Dog Barking at something which is not in view in the background is trees no person nothing
Your heading Capition is
Views on what the Dog is saying Is it Prey or Defence
that is all your opening post says nothing about yourself or Ball Your second video says a lot more, but all we had was what i have mentioned above and that could well apply to what i have said being a guess as there was nothing else in the video except the Dog barking etc and in the action he was doing it
Steve1
I too am not sure what you are saying
in your heading post you give this information and nothing else plus all there is to see in 16 seconds of video is a vehicle with a Dog Barking at something which is not in view in the background is trees no person nothing
Your heading Capition is
Views on what the Dog is saying Is it Prey or Defence
that is all your opening post says nothing about yourself or Ball Your second video says a lot more, but all we had was what i have mentioned above and that could well apply to what i have said being a guess as there was nothing else in the video except the Dog barking etc and in the action he was doing it
Steve1
by LAVK-9 on 11 March 2010 - 00:03
Ninja-Nothing in his left hand. The stick in his right hand....but nothing in his left.
Steve- it is more of what people see in a video....learning to read body language and barks.As Ninja pointed out that some GSDs when they want something that hanve a certain bark as aposed to a bark when there is a threat. I wanted to see what people had to say with out knowing what is going on (1st clip of me having a ball and telling him to bark) Not saying on here but some people might have said he was aggressive when all he wanted was his toy.The second one...yea he would have got my friend. If i was in the truck and someone else was videoing he might have been even more aggitaged and show more aggression cause he had to protect us.They are learnining videos. Would be nice to see other dogs as well...and not just SchH but personal protection. If I am able to get a friend of mine out here for a seminar I am going to have better videos to post.Hard to do them when I have inexperienced people trying to help....it was nice of them to do so though.
Steve- it is more of what people see in a video....learning to read body language and barks.As Ninja pointed out that some GSDs when they want something that hanve a certain bark as aposed to a bark when there is a threat. I wanted to see what people had to say with out knowing what is going on (1st clip of me having a ball and telling him to bark) Not saying on here but some people might have said he was aggressive when all he wanted was his toy.The second one...yea he would have got my friend. If i was in the truck and someone else was videoing he might have been even more aggitaged and show more aggression cause he had to protect us.They are learnining videos. Would be nice to see other dogs as well...and not just SchH but personal protection. If I am able to get a friend of mine out here for a seminar I am going to have better videos to post.Hard to do them when I have inexperienced people trying to help....it was nice of them to do so though.
by steve1 on 11 March 2010 - 07:03
LAVK
Yes, but what i said is true, try it you will get excatly the same reaction from the dog as you did in the first video just keep back with the camera and see the dogs reaction in a setting as we see in the first video or a woodland setting you will see your dog act just the same with the same postures and mannerisms as he did in the first video should he see a small wild animal or something strange to him i will very much guarantee it.
Yes, i think after training and keeping dogs all my life i can read something of there body language otherwise we would never have accomplished anything with them which is a fair amount , You try what i say if it is that much a different reaction than your dog showed in the first video then i will feed the dog for 12 months gratis
One thing i will tell you Guys in the USA, you talk a lot about defence and prey
I have worked with people over here now for 5 years since i moved to Belgium, I have also watched the Police training there Dogs, there School is opposite our training field
At no single one instance has anyone person ScH or Police bought up those Two words in any situation
that is Defence and Prey, they just get on and do what they have to do, but you guys bring it up on very nearly every thread and at every opportunity
I wonder why that is and why they do not go technical over here, for on this forum if someone does not talk in a technical term but straight foreward way then you Guys do not seem to bother, that is not what i was bought up with dogs for the last 60 years to do, just to read the dog and get it done and when i trained dogs for Sheep herding competitions you had to read the Dogs then and from a distance otherwise you were doomed, Same with Training Pups for the help of the Blind folk if you cannot read the Pup you are again way out but it is done just the same without going into any technical talk at all as it is in the Police over here and in the Sch work nothing is mentioned they just get on and get the job done
I am thinking it is time to join a forum on this side of the Water with folk who speak the same language as i do, Me i say it as it is i do not need to go into all this gargon to explain, well not to folk over here where i live for if you started mentioning Prey and Defence they would tell you to Bugger off coming here with that sort of talk, but it seems you have to on this forum go all technical otherwise you are way out, but the job gets done just the same without all this technical stuff, But before i go i would like to see the reaction of the dog in the scenario of what i said
Steve1
Yes, but what i said is true, try it you will get excatly the same reaction from the dog as you did in the first video just keep back with the camera and see the dogs reaction in a setting as we see in the first video or a woodland setting you will see your dog act just the same with the same postures and mannerisms as he did in the first video should he see a small wild animal or something strange to him i will very much guarantee it.
Yes, i think after training and keeping dogs all my life i can read something of there body language otherwise we would never have accomplished anything with them which is a fair amount , You try what i say if it is that much a different reaction than your dog showed in the first video then i will feed the dog for 12 months gratis
One thing i will tell you Guys in the USA, you talk a lot about defence and prey
I have worked with people over here now for 5 years since i moved to Belgium, I have also watched the Police training there Dogs, there School is opposite our training field
At no single one instance has anyone person ScH or Police bought up those Two words in any situation
that is Defence and Prey, they just get on and do what they have to do, but you guys bring it up on very nearly every thread and at every opportunity
I wonder why that is and why they do not go technical over here, for on this forum if someone does not talk in a technical term but straight foreward way then you Guys do not seem to bother, that is not what i was bought up with dogs for the last 60 years to do, just to read the dog and get it done and when i trained dogs for Sheep herding competitions you had to read the Dogs then and from a distance otherwise you were doomed, Same with Training Pups for the help of the Blind folk if you cannot read the Pup you are again way out but it is done just the same without going into any technical talk at all as it is in the Police over here and in the Sch work nothing is mentioned they just get on and get the job done
I am thinking it is time to join a forum on this side of the Water with folk who speak the same language as i do, Me i say it as it is i do not need to go into all this gargon to explain, well not to folk over here where i live for if you started mentioning Prey and Defence they would tell you to Bugger off coming here with that sort of talk, but it seems you have to on this forum go all technical otherwise you are way out, but the job gets done just the same without all this technical stuff, But before i go i would like to see the reaction of the dog in the scenario of what i said
Steve1
by beetree on 11 March 2010 - 13:03
Steve, don't let it get to you, I'm pretty sure I don't talk like that, (yet, any way!
). Not that that thought would give you any comfort, lol. I think there is more to life, too, and in the end, like you say, the job gets done. The jargon serves to compartmentalize the dog training, and I'd say you, and I, even Moons, has a more whole-world approach. You of course take that much further to the competition level, 
). Not that that thought would give you any comfort, lol. I think there is more to life, too, and in the end, like you say, the job gets done. The jargon serves to compartmentalize the dog training, and I'd say you, and I, even Moons, has a more whole-world approach. You of course take that much further to the competition level, 
by yoshy on 11 March 2010 - 13:03
Steve,
I get what you are saying here about terminology, as well as the over use and emphasise on certain terms. However on the other hand how would you describe intelligently without using a descriptive terms of a dogs behavior?
Now I do agree with you that these two terms Prey and Defense are widely mis-used and are very broad terms. It is vital to read your animal no matter what you are training. Whether it be mouse tricks- to pet obedience- to military dual purpose
k-9s- Orcas. But there is something to be said for some of the helpers out there ability to read there dogs in training and ability to read the animals to progress. As with anything you have you hierarchy of quality trainers and helpers. Novice- intermediate- advanced-ELITE- and even then you have diversification for the task at hand.
Now having seen Dar on unfamiliar groud with a new helper being handled by Lauren. He would bite in prey and in low pressure. However he had some inhibitions about the threatening presense (6'2'' decoy w/ clatter stick held up with intent to harm) pushing in and he took a couple retreating steps before decoy released pressure and Dar took a nice bite. I would have liked to seen him as a little more stead fast and meeting the threat at his age. But he is a nice dog for her either way! Do I think he would bite if you threatened his SUV. you darn right. I think it may be a little unsure but I think he would get his point across.
I get what you are saying here about terminology, as well as the over use and emphasise on certain terms. However on the other hand how would you describe intelligently without using a descriptive terms of a dogs behavior?
Now I do agree with you that these two terms Prey and Defense are widely mis-used and are very broad terms. It is vital to read your animal no matter what you are training. Whether it be mouse tricks- to pet obedience- to military dual purpose
k-9s- Orcas. But there is something to be said for some of the helpers out there ability to read there dogs in training and ability to read the animals to progress. As with anything you have you hierarchy of quality trainers and helpers. Novice- intermediate- advanced-ELITE- and even then you have diversification for the task at hand.
Now having seen Dar on unfamiliar groud with a new helper being handled by Lauren. He would bite in prey and in low pressure. However he had some inhibitions about the threatening presense (6'2'' decoy w/ clatter stick held up with intent to harm) pushing in and he took a couple retreating steps before decoy released pressure and Dar took a nice bite. I would have liked to seen him as a little more stead fast and meeting the threat at his age. But he is a nice dog for her either way! Do I think he would bite if you threatened his SUV. you darn right. I think it may be a little unsure but I think he would get his point across.
by LAVK-9 on 11 March 2010 - 21:03
Is it just me or does anyone else not understand what Steve is asking? I am usually good at reading the context of what people say but I am sorry Steve I don't understand what you are getting at? What is the problem with the videos? What is the problem with asking about prey/defence? Yes Dar might bark at another dog passing by the truck or a person.I highly doubt that he is going to bark at a bird or a horse as I lived on a horse farm and he was fine with them and liked them.Then again that was our home. He might bark at one in a different place. It would be a different bark then if a person were to come up and try to get in the truck. The fact that I was standing there videoing and there were other people around...might have made him a bit unsure of what in the world was going on.Also my friend would stop and not be a threat and ask me what he should do.My friend is not the sharpest tool in the shed. I am hoping that i can get a friend of mine out here to do some more work with him.Looking at setting up a seminar for obedience,protection and problem solving.That way I can have someone that knows what they are doing and actually be a threat. Dar has his issues, I blame me not being able to be consistant. I haven't done much with him since 2004. He has just been happy being a dog and exploring and hiking the places we have been.When I am able to settle down somewhere....maybe then I can find another dog...one that has more fight and a bit harder of a dog. ...a more serious dog.Till then....I work with what I have.
by DuvalGSD on 11 March 2010 - 21:03
LAVK-9 i was thinking of this thread last night, when oreo tilted her head at the tv,, Kinda funny i guess you had to be there...
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