Show and Working Lines, 2 separate breeds - Page 7

Ok, just read the next few posts and see that a lot of people feel the same way as I do.  SitasMom said it very well:

"GSD is GSD.........there is only one breed standard. 

The GSD SHOULD be a hard working beautiful dog. GSD's should not look like street dogs, nor should they look like weird wedges......

Every GSD should be BOTH working and show COMBINED. There is only one breed standard. EVERY breeder should breed to the whole standard, not just the parts of the standard that suits his or her fancy.

Healthy show quality dogs that have the ability to do the work required of him.

Balance is the key."

LOL TessJ10... and he says I'm sad?

Via her score book, looks as if her original owner put all the titles on her. Failed attempt by the second owner, then bred a few litters for that kennel before she was sold to me. At some point, she was abused or too soft to deal with changing owners. It took her almost a year to relax in my home and the most we ever got from her was a few bites on a sleeve on a good day. If given commands, she would shut down. So she was left to live her life as she wished here as a $4000 pet until her early death. She was only 4.5yo when I bought her and died 14 months later, at the peak of any condition I saw her in.

My other dog was a much stronger example of the showlines but I bought him with no papers, I have no clue what his lines, beautiful dog though and no major issues with noise, travel or strong corrections. He only had basic OB on him. I gave him away at about a year old, do to living arrangements and a job that had me gone 12 hrs a day. The assclown I gave him to was to give himback to me, if he did not workout. I heard a month later he gave the dog to some rancher in the mountains because it didn't get along with his mothers old dog. I hope he lived a happy full life.

Hi Chris, Good to see you again!  I have a question for you regarding the mixing of the show and working lines, such as what you have done with your amazing girl, Chuckie.  I have heard from people that the reason they don't do this is because the result is many times almost like outcrossing breeds.  Instead of a beautiful, good working dog, you may end up with some that are one way, others that are the other.  I have heard people state it would take multiple generations before you would see stability from mixing lines.

Now, do you think there is no truth to this, since after all, we are working with one breed here?  They are not so different.  There are examples of beautiful working lines and hard working show lines.

To this point I have not posted on this thread because I am on the fence.  I am not so sure there is a problem having two types, though I would never want to see an actual breed split.  In this country, this sort of a split is very normal in many other breeds, setters, spaniels, pointers, the list is endless, show folks and field folks.   For me, there is no room for compromise as far as work ethic is concerned.  I have seen some really good workers from certain show line breeders, (like Chris, KCzaja and some others) but I don't know if the majority of showline breeders are as interested as they are  in producing the kind of dog I and others in the working lines must have.

Finally Christopher, hello friend, so glad you could come to this party.  You are always exactly to the point, no baloney, no punches pulled.  PLEASE never change.   When I'm ready for that GSD/Mali pup I hope you will help me find the right one.

That's pretty shitty 4pack! Holtkampersee are pretty well respected. A good few years back (this is second hand info) we had a dog here in the UK that was sent to Germany for his Sch... apparently he had biting problems and their answer was to twist the dogs balls!

Well, at a show here in the UK, a friend of the owner got him out of the car with little time to spare... he went to give him a quick once over with the brush... and got badly mauled... twice! Both arms were badly bitten. So this is Sch... the quick way? Crap is everywhere 4pack, shame on these people!

Was this bitch 4.5 in your photos? I ask because she looks about 9 years! Thank God for DNA now!

2 different Breeds..

Cockers & Springer Spaniels were ONCE the same breed. Now the Cocker is divided into even another Subset-English, American & Working

Similar to the Pit...theres the American Pit Bull Terrier (Game Bred) and theres the American Staffordshire Terrier. YOu dont see the ASTs in the Pits, where money is bet. Theres a reason why. Genetics.

Americans Destroy everything they get their hands on, in due time. 

Im for neutering of all Show line dogs, unless proven different. Even then, what will they throw..??  Bring back a Mandatory BREED TEST, as once outlined & Practiced,  Divorce yourself from the AKC, and work to continually police & Improve the breed (BReedwarden), otherwise, its another lesson in futility.

Unrestricted Breeding with No Working Protocols or Program, will destroy what the Breed founders outlined and worked so hard for. Just give Americans enough time.  

AKC & parent breed clubs are about registrations & Money, not ability or the Founders Ideals. 

Uglydog, I'm sorry to say, that the UK Kennel Club is no different... strictly a business... they don't give a bugger about dogs or dogdom!  I suspect it's the same world wide.

Thats sad misbeeb

I hope your sporting dogs fair better.  I know a little of your  trial testing and it is excellent.

I also Own/Hunt German Drahthaars registered to the VDD..Verein Deutsch Drahthaar.

The Club and the Breed, is growing & improving, By Leaps and Bounds over 2 decades with strictest of Standards. 

No AKC, No german Wirehair crossbreeding. Very strict but it shows.  Im convinced.

Never heard of it... do you have a link that I can use?

North America  http://www.vdd-gna.org/

German Parent Organization  http://www.drahthaar.de/

Breed Testing Organization North America   http://jgv-usa.org/

And a Stud Im looking at (Possibly), nice size 67/67cm, German import...these are far & away the most popular Hunting dogs in Germany, where it is law one Must hunt with a Trained hunting dog. Theyre phenominal, in a word.