Show and Working Lines, 2 separate breeds - Page 1

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Bancroft, no offence but you've said yourself, you're only 10 years into this.  What do you actually know of showlines... any show lines, directly?

Had you worded your previous thread better, no-one would have gotten the wrong end of the stick!

As long as there are those wanting / willing to look at the Shepherd as 2 different breeds... never the twain shall meet and little progress will be made... great idea!

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 Bancroft, I think that it was inevitable that your last post would lead to this one. I think that having two separate distinctions within a breed is ultimately detrimental to the breed as a whole. As you yourself phrased it best, people in one circle would not breed from the other circle because of what each one strives to achieve for: "V"ictory in the ring or on the schutzhund field. So right off the bat, I believe that people are unwittingly weakening the breed regardless of what camp they are in. Why? Because they breed for extremes vs balance. And life and survivial is all about "balance". Outstanding protection work is about balance.

To me the issue is not show line vs working line. i have seen show line dogs do police work (turn on cops any evening and you will see showlines out there), and I have seen showlines do spectacular protection work. Granted, these are ,by-in-large, the exceptions not the rules. (I have also seen many "nerve bag" showlines) On the flip side, I have seen absolutely gorgeous working lines, with well balanced temperament traits, that would fit into any household and still be a mean "mama jama" out on the field.

I feel that breeding for certain characteristics (line breeding), distinguishing lines within one breed (show vs working) could ultimately do more harm than good to the German Shepherd breed. ANYTIME IN NATURE THAT YOU LIMIT YOUR GENE POOL, YOU INCREASE THE LIKELIHOOD OF SEEING NEGATIVE RECESSIVE TRAITS. And that is what we are doing to the German Shepherd, we are breeding for extremes, which can bring the ribbons and trophies, as opposed to what truly is best for our beloved shepherds.

SSDD.

I will second that SSDD. I am pro outcrossing over to Dutch Shep, and even Malies to improve (enhance whatever you want to call it) working line GSD's. I just prefer good working dog, as long his drives are not over the top, since I am not into sport I just don't need it.

The excitement never ends.....

Morning to you too snajper.

Have a good one,  I'm about finished with my coffee and ready for the real world finally.

snaijper69 did you say you are pro outcrossing to the duch or malis ?? do you mean to add to the gsd??some one will hand you your head on a platter.Tina Barba come to mind ,thats not a happy thread..LOL. I must have mistaken what you said.

Bark and hold, i largely agree with your views but i must ask you a question? When you say balance, what is the purpose of this balance?

This is the problem with this Show/ Working debate, people act like there were never "show dogs that consistently produced good working dogs,(Frei, Bernd, Marko,Mutz, Bodo,etc), Now here is what needs to be analyzed to understand the split. "What do we do different to breed show/working dogs today, that wasn't done during the times of these great dual producers. If we analyze the differences we will untangle where the ship went offcourse. (Hint: If you look at the pedigrees of dogs from both camps from now back to these dogs it will slap you in the face quickly) So, if you truly want to have BALANCE, then you have to go back to the type of breeding that produced these VA show/working dogs...JMO 

Bark and hold, i largely agree with your views but i must ask you a question? When you say balance, what is the purpose of this balance?

This is the problem with this Show/ Working debate, people act like there were never "show dogs that consistently produced good working dogs,(Frei, Bernd, Marko,Mutz, Bodo,etc), Now here is what needs to be analyzed to understand the split. "What do we do different to breed show/working dogs today, that wasn't done during the times of these great dual producers. If we analyze the differences we will untangle where the ship went offcourse. (Hint: If you look at the pedigrees of dogs from both camps from now back to these dogs it will slap you in the face quickly) So, if you truly want to have BALANCE, then you have to go back to the type of breeding that produced these VA show/working dogs...JMO