What to do with - Page 6

Windwalker, Beckett's was the right...some claim to fame, huh? jackie harris

I wouldn't judge you negatively for rehoming the dog after you get his schH1.  I think there is nothing wrong with that.   As long as he is placed in a good home with people who are aware of his hip and who will love him and care for him, that's a great answer.   Good luck with finding him a new home. 

 Jackie and Windwalker...interesting that the article addresses both of those things- the left hip and limiting play, as pet owners are often told to do. I have been trying to figure out this unilateral HD thing for a long time now, and I try to read whatever I can find, and after doing that, I decided I was confident enough to start experimenting myself. For all of my previous dogs, I raised them how I was told- no jumping, no jogging, no long exercise on concrete, minimize stairs, etc. 

Well, that didn't yield any better results than the average in terms of joints, and in a couple cases, worse. So, for my next couple, I did as the article suggested was the answer, and as I thought a pup would do in the wild. I let them run as much as they wanted in a natural environment (my yard, not concrete), but I never forced them, like jogging, biking, etc. I never stopped them from climbing things they wanted to climb, or even jumping off of things they'd climbed up on. I fed them a natural diet, and I almost never crated them. Kept them skinny enough to get dirty looks from passersby. They stayed outside for the most part and were "wild children." One of them genetically should've had a higher- than- average chance at developing HD. Neither parent was OFA certified. 

Anyway...this total disregard for everything the "experts" have told us about caring for GSD hips proved quite fruitful. They are some of the nicest-looking, most congruent, beautiful hips I have seen. Unfortunately, I can't post them because I don't have them in my possession. Now of course this is anecdotal and simply my experience, not a scientific study, but to me, my own experience in doing things one way vs. another is pretty powerful when it makes that much difference. Could be just a fluke. Or maybe not. 

Another thing I'll throw out there to confuse the issue is that natural health scholars are finding more and more environmental influences showing up in genetic research. Meaning, exposure to certain elements can, over time, become part of an animal's genetic makeup. I recall a study showing evidence of a particular kind of chemical poisoning being found in people who were far too young to have ever encountered it, but their grandparents had. Upon further DNA analysis, there were very startling conclusions.

Anyway...rambling now, but my point is that I am not at all convinced that generation after generation of babying dogs and keeping them in an unnatural manner (apartments, crates, eating cereal, limiting exercise, over feeding, etc. etc.) hasn't caused a genetic propensity to develop HD. Yes, HD is often genetic, but if that was all there was to it, we'd have conquered it, as I have a zillion times. Unless we are inadvertently doing something to cause it, why have we not been able to eliminate it? Sure, it's polygenic...but so are other things we've effectively eradicated. Why is HD so different?

Jen,

Only mutation in gametes are inheritable.  A hip injury will not cause a mutation in gametes; therefore it will never contribute to the offspring's genome.  The theory of evolution from acquired inheritance has long been refuted.

 Michele, that was merely an example brought up to, as they say in court, produce a "reasonable doubt" which should, if people are capable of critical thinking, cast shadows on ALL of what we think we "know." If we "knew" all there was to know about genetics, and how environment can impact various components, then we would not have this thread going on right now. This narrow-minded attitude is, IMHO, what is preventing us from solving the HD puzzle. 

  In other words, you are so set on your scientific evidence that you are not able to look at simple facts...like the fact that you have NO FREAKING CLUE WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR DOG'S HIP. You can say you "know" what didn't happen...but you can't say you "know" what did. 

This was a general post to the other posters who I addressed specifically in my first paragraph; the fact that you took it as a personal statement on your specific circumstance and dismissed it as such proves my point beautifully. 

Over and out. 

Jenn i have heard what you are talking about and find it interesting. I saw a program on in called The Ghost in the Genes. i think the dog is fine to work hips are not what i would call bad at all. I have had much much worse. I did not know the dog was almost 3 hard to guarantee when your guarantee states otherwise. He may have been A2 at two years hard to say. I xray all of ours we raise at 10 months to year just so I know what is up in the hip dept. I have issues with OFA never know who is rating hips. My vet tells me they usually agree with the first vet so not to hurt the others feelings or reputation that is why I use the SV have one hip guy and one elbow guy both are specialists. I find I get a more consistent result and one I have always agreed with. You will never get OFA to change their rating it look bad on them.Your decision whether to breed or not many breed dogs without xrays and ratings I do not agree with people doing that but it is not any of my business unless i want to purchase. I do not require people to return a dog that fails as that would be double painful IMO but would accept one back that did if the owner did not care to keep the dog, 

 I do the same in my guarantee. I ask for prelims, but if the dog is dysplastic, it need not be returned to get another. I think that is a cop out way for breeders to avoid replacing dogs, as few are cold enough to return a dog to the breeder for dysplasia and the breeder counts on this emotional quandary. 

I agree this dog is fine to work. I had been under the impression he was not going to be bred, so I was gauging my opinions on that, but it seems that was not the truth. If you want to breed, yes, this is very disappointing. You will be forever trying to prove to prospective buyers that there is nothing genetically wrong with your dog, which is very difficult if you don't have reports and records of an injury.

HD is such a complex puzzle and I really wish OFA wasn't the be all, end all decider on who does and who does not get bred. I'm pretty sick of crappy dogs w/great hips being bred over great dogs with decent hips. 

I know many people flip flop on whether or not to breed a dog.  I think it is good and healthy. If you find information that indicates the dog in question is not suitable to breed, then the owner should decide not to breed.  If you were wrong, the dog is worthy to be bred, then the owner can change opinions.  If the benefits the dog would bring outway the flaws, it might be another reason to decide to breed. JMO though.

It is good to wonder about the causes of HD.  Trying to figure out if HD is more genetic or environment does not go against the current accepted knowledge of how genotypes and phenotypes work.  But as of now, genes are not inherited by acquiring phenotypes.  I wanted to let everyone know that.  This is just my experience, coming from a profession that accepts the previaling scientific views and explores from what we have currently proven to be true.  It is really hard to debate science effectivly without a good solid backround in it.  So I dont mean anything personal to anyone here.  If people post outlandish scientific claims, I will tell you that you are wrong base on the facts and research.  Its like me watching a youtube video and then saying dog X is an amazing dog who should be bred because they will make good dogs.  But someone with 30 years experience, who has seen the dog work, seen the parents and siblings work, knows the pedigree, tells me I have no idea what I'm talking about.

my repo speicalist has always  said they either have good hips or bad hips as i was very surprised when my boy came back with good hips as he can not ever sit still for 2 seconds and the jumping he did. i also have a female that has excellent movement and guess what she has HD she is now 5 and never a day has she ever limped.
 

i have heard some may never limp. i say go ahead and have fun with robby.