Protective trait in temprament - Page 6

funny ,I know of some dogs who fit your description Vikram , but they are czech dogs

these traits are bred out of most west lines , cant make korung with a dog like that in the west

only one of the three I know has korung

BEHAVIOUR / TEMPERAMENT: The German Shepherd Dog must be even tempered, well balanced (with strong nerves), self assured, totally at ease (except when provoked) and good natured, as well as attentive and easy to train. He must possess courage, combatively and toughness in order to be suitable as a companion, guard, service, Herding-dog and « Schutzhund ».

ELIMINATING FAULTS:
- Aggressive or overly shy.
- Weak temperament and nerves, biters.

Association for German Shepherd Dogs, was originally developed on breeding from then available Central and South German herding dogs with the final aim to create a dog highly suitable for the most demanding utility work. To achieve this aim, the breed standard of the German Shepherd Dog was developed, emphasizing correct physical structure and particularly a sound temperament and good character.

I trained with Dominic and Joey, back in the 70's in North Jersey with Bill Alexander. Duke1965 is 100 percent correct in that the dogs that Dominic worked and were prevalent doing the period that he learned his craft were closer to the Czech dogs of today. It is so obvious that some people on this forum are only regurgitating what they have read and don't have a real clue as to working dogs. Slamdunc you will not get an answer to your question, trust me. Why do I even engage myself in these discussions....UGH again!...Outta hear 

sitasmom
the dogs I talk about have sound temperamend and good caracter , but are not allmensfriend
they recognize threat , and respond to it

one of these dogs is mine , hes good inside the hous and out , good with my 11 year old son etc , but dont make any trheats towards me or my family , I dont have to tell him what to do , he makes his own choices
last week my old neigbour , who is a biker visited us , long hair all black leather , came walking up to me , and my dog stood by my side and gave a deep dark growl , nothing more nothing less , just a warning
we shook hands , and it was OK for the dog


most sport dogs are preydriven , and as soon as there is a threat without a prey(sleeve)they dont know what the hell to do

To have the ideal sportdog , you need a dog with a flat caracter and mediocre drives , and lots prey , anything else is harder to train and control

I think you could say that breeding for the ideal sportsdog is not ideal for the versatility of the GSD

several topsportdogs(wellknown) are known to have enviremental problems outside the field

"I think you could say that breeding for the ideal sportsdog is not ideal for the versatility of the GSD"

IMO

The German Shepherd is SUPPOSED to be bred to the COMPLETE breed standard, not just to the parts that we happen to agree with........

Therefore some of these "sport dogs" are being bred to have "eliminating falts".......this is not good for the breed.

Just for the record "show dogs" are also being bred to have "eliminating falts"....this is also not good for the breed.

Check out Nate Harves article in the latest issue of the USA magazine. The article is great. It should answwer your questions about what a good GSD is and which ones should be bred. I couldn't agree with it more. As a matter of fact Vikram Nate is one breeder who breeds the type pf dogs you asked about.

Held,

here is my take on unstable dogs , , unstability .results from fear . It may be a bad case of nerves, to sum it up . I do not think socially aggressive dogs are unstable . Social aggression had a biological function .Social Aggression is not an evil quality and it served to maintain order in a group of dogs and so . Such dog-owners have to very vigilant with their dogs and takes knowledgeable people to handle such dogs .We are unlikely to see social aggression in the present day and age . However , handler aggresssion on the other hand , can be a result of dominance . The higher the dominance , the lower the tractability . However , handler aggression can also arise out of mistreatment . This kind of handler aggression arising out of handler mistreatment is not to be confused with the probably less occurring dominance-based handler Aggression .
t is possible to train socially aggressive dogs to teach them restraint . but about unstable dogs being controlled , in my opinion , they can be very unpredictable being fear-based biters . You never know what they might perceive as a threat or how fear makes them aggressive . When fear overtakes their perceived danger , they cannot be controlled . Unstability can result from Genetics as well as Environmental influences .
cheers and regards

Vikram Quote:   "We are unlikely to see social aggression in the present day and age."

We are all entitled to our own oppinions. Even if they are wrong.

Give me a dog like Kutter vom Landesberg http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/522372.html  Now Sch 3. Tough "old school" style Schutzhund titled dog that's a working K9 and can turn a 290+ score. Tell Mike you can't don't get social aggression anymore.

Gustav,
You are correct.  But, I still have to ask every now and then.

Jim