Showlines, Working Lines - The ability to work - Page 6

I agree that Chris makes some good points, however, introducing the Malinois into the discussion is not comparing like to like.  I agree that the Malinois is a super worker and credit must go to their owners, trainers and breeders.

I understand your point about working practioners thinking that the S/L dogs construction is no longer good working structure.  I think that for the working people construction is secondary to performance and the end product that they are getting, therefore, visually it can be seen that S/L animals are closer to the concept of the breed standard in anatomical terms.  The inbreeding programme that was introduced by Hermann Martin has created problems in other areas of the breed standard i.e. Character, workability, size and some health issues, which for me was not a sacrifice worth making just so the dogs looked more uniform in appearance.  

I am convinced that in the right hands S/L German Shepherd will hold their own.  It just needs more people to take it up and try harder in their Selection and work ethic.

regards

Mackenzie

Chris ,    " Malinois is not really a breed . It's a variety of the Belgium Shepherd. Technically calling the malinois a breed is the same as calling the sable GSD a breed " .Yikes I had that debate with mystere and she seems to have a very different opinion on that . Could some one please enlighten me as to which is the correct claim . It is my belief ,the mali are selectively bred for the over the top drives of today . I hope this is not off topic ,I would like an answer and my head still attached to my body .

That is an absolutely inaccurate statement. Fortunately, Chris knows me and knows I would not make that stupid statement. :-) What I tried to convey at one time was PRECISELY that in the US the Mal is considered a separate breed, while in Europe it is a variety of a breed that includes the Groendale, the Terv, and Lakenois. What I also tried to convey was that the differences was not simply hair and color. Mals and Tervs can come out of the same litters, even in the US (due to more use of European lines). What I also tried to convey is that the Groendal is not simply a longhaired, black Mal. The structure in that case is a bit different in length/height ratio. Certainly, in this country, the temperament is very, very different than a mal. You don't often even hear of Groendaels coming from a mal or Terv litter. The Lakenois (the wirehaired version) is not seen in the US much at all. I believe it may be recognized by the CKC, but not the AKC. I hope I have made myself clear...again.

TWILIGHT ZONE TIME!!!

I have no clue what you are smoking July but I think it must be some pretty good shit.  Thanks for the laugh.   You really out did yourself in the last paragraph, wow.  Unbelievable. 

I am going to give you a real leg up on yourself and assume you were saying you set up some races (probably the morning after your "night tests")  and were able to determine black GSDs were faster than white GSDs.  No, nevermind.  Even if you try to apply that statement to dogs instead of humans it's still just a dumbass uneducated and breathtakingly ignorant statement. 

Well I got my answer .Thank you .I am however not real aware as to the( wire haired version) .It must not have caught my eye . I will read up on it .

OFF TOPIC INTERUPTION!

BabyEagle nice to see you back!  I don't think your comment regarding KNPV lines has much to do with the topic, but those dogs certainly are a horse of a different color!  I assume since you are talking about comparing lines you have  experience with KNPV lines as well as have handled KNPV trained dogs.  You are lucky, since that particular sport/police training is not practiced here in the USA,  most of the rest of us in the USA don't have enough first hand experience and knowledge about it to discuss it intelligently  one way or another.  Anyway I digress. 

I was hoping to call your attention to the question Christopher asked you on another thread.  I think perhaps you did not see his follow up question asking you to explain what you meant by the "strict requirements of the Chiens de Berger Belge like back in the day".  You have not answered him.
  
I realize this is not the right thread to answer his question so for your convenience I have included a link to that thread: 
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/292676.html#293173

Drives, speed, and working ability by Christopher Smith on 10 April 2009 - 18:04	Christopher Smith Posts: 328 Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:26 pm
You know, keep the strict requirements of the Chiens de Berger Belge like back in the day ... No, I don't know. What requirements are you talking about?

Looking forward to your learned response on that thread.  

The best system to fail is to have no system at all. 

 

I can’t find strong enough words to disagree with this statement. If your statement is true then you how do you explain the Malinois and the Border Collie? Between these to breeds they dominate almost every facet of working dogs outside of hunting. They have no breed test. No mandatory health testing. No mandatory working test. No show requirements. They have no “system” yet it is rare to find a dog that is out of standard. How did this happen?