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by Kalibeck on 19 August 2007 - 13:08
Hi All! I'm not trying to butt in, but...I think I've seen the kind of stack photos that Julie is talking about, and they are very extreme, I have seen American showline stack, German showline stack, and workingline stack, which is a little less extreme, and is also my preference. But the there are others, and I think the dogs I saw were mostly from Italy and South America, where it almost seems like they are trying ti 'roach' the dogs back way beyond the realm of possibly being able to move at all, the position does look sexual. That is the extreme, I guess, that Trafalgar was talking about,; perhaps this is appealing in another cultural setting? Just a thought, not trying to stir the pot....jo BTW, I think ALL GSDs,if healthy, are beautiful!
by Naya's Mom on 19 August 2007 - 14:08
When Iluvmygsd mentions EXTREME STACKED DOGS, I ALWAYS think of Eurosport. There is a dang good example. I love their dogs, hate the stacks, I'm always wondering if the dogs are gonna have hip/elbow problems from all of those dogs with their asses on the ground and their back leg stretched back so far the dog COULD be sitting down. No offence to Eurosport, I love the red and white title thing, just don't care for the poses those dogs are put into.
by jdh on 19 August 2007 - 18:08
Extreme stacks generally reflect poorly on the dog. The two reasons that I know of are (AKC) custom and ignorance. As Chris (Silbersee) stated, the dogs posture in stand is affected by the foot placement. It is reasonable to present your dog to best advantage. Hence it makes sense to position a dog with a steep croup in such a way that the steepness is minimized, while you might place the inside foot slightly farther foreward to accentuate a croup that is somewhat flat. A dog that is deeply angulated in the rear is best stacked with the least stretch, whereas a dog with a steep rear can be stretched slightly to show more balance in angles. It is beneficial to understanding of your dogs structure to take many pictures and compare what you see. The best stack is nearly always a natural free stack. Well constructed dogs will frequently stop mid stride in a decent free stack, and can be encouraged to do so on command. Best Wishes, Jonah
by jdh on 19 August 2007 - 18:08
Extreme stacks generally reflect poorly on the dog. The two reasons that I know of are (AKC) custom and ignorance. As Chris (Silbersee) stated, the dogs posture in stand is affected by the foot placement. It is reasonable to present your dog to best advantage. Hence it makes sense to position a dog with a steep croup in such a way that the steepness is minimized, while you might place the inside foot slightly farther foreward to accentuate a croup that is somewhat flat. A dog that is deeply angulated in the rear is best stacked with the least stretch, whereas a dog with a steep rear can be stretched slightly to show more balance in angles. It is beneficial to understanding of your dogs structure to take many pictures and compare what you see. The best stack is nearly always a natural free stack. Well constructed dogs will frequently stop mid stride in a decent free stack, and can be encouraged to do so on command. Best Wishes, Jonah
by MVF on 20 February 2009 - 18:02
Insiders (of all types) lose perspective on what they are doing and newcomers/outsiders often see the problem more clearly. The extreme stack follows Trafalgar's extreme selection principle, which I think is a corollary to the more general principle of measuring and rewarding what is easiest to measure and reward, as opposed to what really matters. You see this at work in all walks of life, and dog breeding is a great example of it.
Aristotle said we need to seek the golden mean, but we rarely do that well. It takes a fresh perspective to call us out on it.
Touchy old-timers are just doing what they are known for, defending the status quo. "Recourse to authority breeds weakness." If the argument fails on the evidence, it is not saved by your many years of experience.
by Princess on 20 February 2009 - 19:02
by july9000 on 20 February 2009 - 19:02
For others it could help make you beleive that the croup is better when putting the dog hocks flat on the ground..Not that it makes the dog looks better..
Most of the roach we see is in german showlines..and yes it doesn't look very natural for a roach back dog to be stack..
Princess..I have very angulated rear on my GSD and that has nothing to do with HD..square dogs have HD too!!
Here's one..be careful..it could hurt your eyes if you are not use to it LOL..She is OFA excellent! (she's a long coat)
This stack could be better(the front feet and the leg in the back is a little too stretch)
And her sister OFA good...(7pts to her CH)
It doesn't look painful to me!! Is this the extreme stacking you are talking about??
by SitasMom on 20 February 2009 - 20:02
Many of the dogs that look so deformed when stacked look quite normal when standing naturally.
This extreme stacking is to the point where it just looks silly.
I for one would like to see a stack in a more natural position become popular.
by july9000 on 20 February 2009 - 20:02
By the way.those 2 dogs stacks by themsleves..and they look the same free stack or when I place them..
by smith on 20 February 2009 - 22:02
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