Question about HD - Page 5

LET ME HELP EXPLAIN

"I also think that the dog “Indiana vom Wildsteiger Land” that was so popular on the PDB, well in my opinion it may not have been the breeders fault, and may have been just as much the owners fault,"  (skip some words)  This dog clearly had unilateral HD along with visible lose bone fragments, clear evidence of an injury that happened at some point, the other hip was good/normal, this dog was obviously injured at some point in his life. It could have even been dropped as a puppy, (refering to breeder or owner) who knows?  Just my opinions.            

I dont see that I attacked anyone?

as far as the links, that would be public information. since it is on her public web site. My words:"(JMO)    CLICK  (so much for many years of good breeding) CLICK  (another wonderful breeding)"  sorry but I (me/myself) do not believe in breeding a white female with a faded nose to a VA sired/SG male. ONCE AGAIN, THAT IS JUST MY OPINION.

ONce again.... JUST A PERSONAL ATTACK!

Well, WHOEVER the hell has SAR trained the dog in Phoenix has my congratulations! 

I'll just resign myself to having no clue what this is all about. The bright side is that being clueless is becoming a way of life for me.

Dawg

DJC

I looked back and have yet to see when and how I attacked you personaly.  again your web site is public information.

If i wanted to attack you I would start a new topic, and belive me I could make you look like a real joke (with plenty of documented proof and nothing made up).  But thats not the type of person I am.

By the way one of your past coustomers called me yesterday and told me the things you are trying to pull on him...  thats not even cool.   at one time you called him my friend, the truth is he is just as much as a friend to me as he was to you, all he wanted was to have a nice litter of pups. you must be seeking revenge on him also, why I have no clue. he did nothing to you that I know of.

Have a good night,

LMAO @ Dawg

Clueless can be a good thing at times.

 Pup

Ya know... you need to crawl back under the rock you live under.

YOUR friend, ( he contacted YOU both times about breeding, NOT me) did not register his litter properly out of my stud dog. So, what am I trying to pull??? The breeding was an AI not a natural breeding. Sounds to me like you are siding with dishonesty. PLUS he never asked for my signature on the litter! IT needs to be corrected is all. YOU are making a big deal out of it. As soon as he files the correct paperwork all will be fine.

 So, it goes. The dishonest hang together.

Documented proof huh? lol Looks like the pot calling the kettle black!!!!!! lol ROTFLMAO

Whether my website is public information or not, it is not part of the subject matter of this thread. You ONLY put it up to make fun of my pet litters. Looks like Dawg, and the rest of the happy owners have a much better point of view as to their value. 

You are just proving you are the arrogant jerk that you are. 

"What percentages would you assign to the factors contributing to hip displasia?"

Now it doesn't surprise me you get the most funny answers here. Go into a cafe and ask who will be the next worldchampion in soccer or baseball, you'll get the same kind of answers. Some will say: "Brasil", others will say "Costa Rica", more will even say "Belgium". Now I can tell you the latter is very funny indeed, but no way! (And we hardly play baseball overhere, grin.) Most of us here are amateurs and just guessing, and saying a number to please you, or to pretend expertise.

Your question can only be answered satisfactory by scientists and even their answers will differ. Let's just keep it with the latest findings from the University of Hannover, completing their studies with the conclusion the heredity of HD is about 90%.

Quote: "Neueste molekulargenetische Forschungen an der Universität Hannover kommen zu dem Schluss, dass die Erblichkeit der Hüftdysplasie 90% betrage."

You won't find a better answer anywhere. I'm quite sure noone on this board will prove to have the same level of expertise these people in Hannover have. Most of the people on this board are breeders, their opinions are byased. They will, of course, try and minimize the frequency and magnitude of HD. Don't let them fool you.

What caused the magnitude of HD: in short, failing breeding policies, oversized studdogs and females (VA-dogs have been giants for ages, both males and females), and narrowing the bloodlines to Quanto and Canto (2 basic lines, nothing more, nothing less.) Although ALL the important gsd-studs are way over 65 (more like average 72 I daresay), breeding surveys document - how very funny - ALL DOGS are 65 cm.! Isn't that unbelievable? I think I would laugh, if it weren't so tragic.

The skeleton of the male gsd in its evolution was built for a dog (somewhat like Horand von Grafrath = Hektor Linksrhein) whose height would be 61-62 cm and whose weight would be about 30-35 kg. You fool around with those dimensions, you're bound to get into trouble.

If you think you can start shaping the dog into a hyena, you will of course get a better stacked picture and succeed in a matter of a few generations only, but only completely ruining nature (and the hips carrying this weight of 38-45 kg). 

BTW. We did NOT put the HD in the dog. And there aren't so many stupid people on this world who wouldn't have a clue about bringing up/feeding gsds as there are dysplastic animals . If hips are sound, you won't make the dog dysplastic. Stop fooling yourselves.

Jantie

www.bloggen.be/hd

Interesting for germanreading people: Herbert Born (in 2001):

http://www.sv-og-juegesheim.de/zwinger/meinungen3.htm

Jantie,

how do you come to that conclusion that size is to blame for the occurance of HD?

Please take a look at the OFFA HD-statistics by breed: http://www.OFFA.org/hipstatbreed.html

The list is surprising. The GSD is in 40th place out of 148 breeds with an occurance of 19% HD. Interestingly, the tiny little Pug is in 2nd place and the huge Irish Wolfhound in 125th. Also, I wonder if the Main Coon Cat (!!!!!!) in 25th place is a printing error (a cat?) and what is a "Hybrid" in 30th?

I know that stats can never be truly correct due to the fact that some dogs never get x-rayed and some x-rays never get sent in. But it is still a helpful tool!

As to the question if HD is genetic or not: I do believe that the predisposition for it is certainly genetic, but to a certain degree, the severity is environmentally influenced.

Jantie, Prof. Distl of the Uni Hannover thinks HD is 90% heredity and Prof. Beuing of the Uni Gießen is talking about less than 20%. Neither you or I know for sure. I want to guess that the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

As to the link you provided for the German speaking people: Who is Herbert Born? Somebody with an opinion! You know how it is with opinions... everybody has one. And before you start accusing me of advocating an oversized dog, wrong!

Have a great weekend!

Chris 

Sorry, I can't go in and edit:

I meant hereditary (not heredity). 

Chris,

I agree with your pragmatism with regard to the various opinions. I would not consider OFA stats to be a reliable source of ratios as screening in the US is largely voluntary,  and the US strains of several breeds are isolated from international populations because of different breeding goals.

Jantie,

You well know from previous discussions that my reading of the statistics differs from yours. However, you are quite right that size is a problem and the subject of considerable hypocrisy. While size alone is unlikely the sole cause, accelerated growth associated with larger animals AND with incorrect feeding could be very much a contributor to the problem. I do not blame individual owners on a large scale for excessive and unbalanced feeding, but I believe you are mistaken about how ignorant most people are. Most people will die as a result of stupidity and self destructive gluttony, unbalanced diet, lack of exercise, and a few others.  Most transfer these same self destructive lifestyle choices to their dogs. To further complicate matters most people lack the time and motivation to investigate the nutritional merit of the commercial feeds that they buy. Pet feeds are formulated to maximize profit, not health. The result is all too frequently dogs that are obese, and so put extra strain on developing joints, dogs that because of overfeeding grow at a faster rate, increasing the likelihood of joint deformity, dogs that do not receive the correct balance of nutrients and minerals to support consistent joint development, etc...I am not motivated to minimize the problem, but in reading the data I come up with a different conclusion. As with any scientific study it is wise to discard the extremes that do not fit since they are likely skewed by some outside influence. If the heritability were anywhere near 90% it would be far easier to eradicate HD, unless you suppose some complex mode of inheritance in which variable penetrance foils any attempt to accurately assess genotype. I am well aware that frailties exist in the systems of reporting whereby it is rather easy for a breeder to report only the normals so artificially skewing the ZW score of his dog. I would support a breed club requirement that ALL pups of registered litters have X-rays submitted by 24 months regardless of whether or not they are show or breeding prospects as it is extremely relevant to the reproductive value of both parents. In this way we should finally have an accurate picture of ZW. While we frequently disagree, I have considerable respect for your diligence in seeking answers on this very important subject. Best Wishes, Jonah