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by Smiley on 22 April 2012 - 17:04
I respect your opinion and would agree with it 99% of the time but not in this particular instance!!
Why don't you tell the OP exactly where to go to acquire a dog that has a 4 generation pedigree of proven service dogs in each generation so that they may contact the breeder to buy one? I am sure you can direct them to a breeder who can provide such a proven 4 generation service dog pedigree to ensure that all service dog genes are being properly expressed in both phenotype and genotype.
Sara
Why don't you tell the OP exactly where to go to acquire a dog that has a 4 generation pedigree of proven service dogs in each generation so that they may contact the breeder to buy one? I am sure you can direct them to a breeder who can provide such a proven 4 generation service dog pedigree to ensure that all service dog genes are being properly expressed in both phenotype and genotype.
Sara
by GSD2727 on 22 April 2012 - 17:04
To the OP, if the purpose was to get puppies to train for service work... why wouldnt you have looked for puppies/young dogs in rescues and shelters? May take a little time to find ones that are suitable but not impossible at all! I am sure GSD rescues across the country would have been happy to help you look for puppies who would be suitable if you would have gotten the word out about your plan/mission. Rather then creating more unregistered dogs, why not save some of the ones who need homes and would be suitable for this?
I also find it interesting that the OP plans to keep/train all of these puppies. Wouldn't it take a big team to properly raise/train that many puppies at the same time for something like service dog work? Maybe she does have a huge team in place? but just seems odd.
I just cannot agree with or understand the "need" to breed unregistered GSDs, for any reason. There are so many GSDs out there - with good breeders/pedigrees and in shelters with unknown history. You CAN find GSDs suitable to be service dogs. You do not NEED to create unregistered ones yourself. JMO of course.
Valerie
I also find it interesting that the OP plans to keep/train all of these puppies. Wouldn't it take a big team to properly raise/train that many puppies at the same time for something like service dog work? Maybe she does have a huge team in place? but just seems odd.
I just cannot agree with or understand the "need" to breed unregistered GSDs, for any reason. There are so many GSDs out there - with good breeders/pedigrees and in shelters with unknown history. You CAN find GSDs suitable to be service dogs. You do not NEED to create unregistered ones yourself. JMO of course.
Valerie
by Smiley on 22 April 2012 - 17:04
Valerie,
OP is using her personal service dog as a brood bitch.....who is proven in that regard (as an active service dog). She said multiple times not going into breeding business but training business. It's ONE litter. Lighten up....trust me....the world and breed as we know it will not end!!
Ok, this is my last post......please carry on without my comments!!
Sara
OP is using her personal service dog as a brood bitch.....who is proven in that regard (as an active service dog). She said multiple times not going into breeding business but training business. It's ONE litter. Lighten up....trust me....the world and breed as we know it will not end!!
Ok, this is my last post......please carry on without my comments!!
Sara
by Sunsilver on 22 April 2012 - 18:04
I also find it interesting that the OP plans to keep/train all of these puppies. Wouldn't it take a big team to properly raise/train that many puppies at the same time for something like service dog work? Maybe she does have a huge team in place? but just seems odd.
NOWHERE in her posts does the OP state that! Please READ WHAT SHE SAID! She is going to keep one or two of the puppies, give those with SD potential to SD organizations, and find responsible pet homes for the rest!
The dog she bred is HER OWN service dog. She has M.S., so I doubt she would be up to training all the puppies, even if that were the plan.
Were you aware that many police dogs don't have papers? Why don't you go pick on them instead? What matters here is the dog's ability, same as in police work. Papers don't matter at all.
NOWHERE in her posts does the OP state that! Please READ WHAT SHE SAID! She is going to keep one or two of the puppies, give those with SD potential to SD organizations, and find responsible pet homes for the rest!
The dog she bred is HER OWN service dog. She has M.S., so I doubt she would be up to training all the puppies, even if that were the plan.
Were you aware that many police dogs don't have papers? Why don't you go pick on them instead? What matters here is the dog's ability, same as in police work. Papers don't matter at all.
by Keith Grossman on 22 April 2012 - 23:04
I'm sorry but I have to agree with Valerie. I'm sure that lots of people have unregistered dogs that they think are the ideal dog for (fill in the blank) and we would not hesitate to tell those people they shouldn't breed those dogs and with very good reason. This particular dog's use as a service dog doesn't change that any more than it would for any other dog being used for any other purpose. Having papers on a dog gives a breeder the ability to not only consider that individual's contribution to its progeny but those of his/her ancestors as well...both temperamentally and/or physically...good and bad. It matters little if this dog is free of HD, for example, if there is a high incidence of it in previous generations. I'm sure the traits the OP values could be found in many, many dogs with papers and known ancestory.
I also take issue with the suggestion that many police dogs don't have papers and/or come from unknown bloodlines. Yes, we've all read the stories about the occaisional dog that was found in a shelter and trained to work in some law enforcement capacity but lets be honest; those dogs are the exception, not the rule and they aren't being used for breeding.
I also take issue with the suggestion that many police dogs don't have papers and/or come from unknown bloodlines. Yes, we've all read the stories about the occaisional dog that was found in a shelter and trained to work in some law enforcement capacity but lets be honest; those dogs are the exception, not the rule and they aren't being used for breeding.
by fawndallas on 23 April 2012 - 02:04
Thank you all, both for your support and your clear questions/concerns about what I have done. Some of your questions have made me think.
I fully understood that without Rose's pedigree, I was taking a large chance. I did everything I could to insure Roses health and breeding quality. One thing that I ask everyone to keep in mind...the different breeding lines of GSDs started somewhere. Pedigrees have not always been tracked.
If the training plans work as I expect, I might consider breeding another litter. IT WILL NOT BE WITH ROSE THOUGH. At that point, it will only be with a registered female. That said, here is what I ran into before I got Rose in looking for a GSD. If anyone can recommend a line that produces these types of GSDs, please email it to me.
1. Dog must have a natural (not trained) calm unexcitable demenor. This is actually hard to find than you would imagine.
2. Dog must have a natural inteligence. Most any dog can be taught "tricks." It almost appears that Rose can reason simple things out. Remember, there is a difference between teaching a dog to open a gate by pushing a latch up and a dog that watches humans push up the latch and decides to do it themselves one day. (no incentive on the other side, dog did it just to do it and then sat down on the other side of the gate).
3. Dog must show no aggressive tendies. No growlling / barking in a strange situation. That is not to say that the dog will not be leary in a strange situation. The "protection" I get from Rose is more visual than anything. The minimal protection work we have done with her, she just simply puts herself between me and the threat and might put her paw on the aggressor. She makes no sound. This part she does natually.
4. Dog must be able to handle any situtation with confidence and head held high. If there is any question about how the dog will react in any situation, that dog will not work as a service dog.
A service dog must be able to go around all other animals with no effect.
A service dog must be able to handle any type of contact, including a squealling child coming up and throwing their arms around the dog.
A service dog must be able to handle going anywhere new. Example: construction zone, airport, parade, Six Flags (not on the rides of course).
A service dog must not require any correction to handle above.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```
Side note: Both Rose's sire and dam were Dallas police dogs.
I fully understood that without Rose's pedigree, I was taking a large chance. I did everything I could to insure Roses health and breeding quality. One thing that I ask everyone to keep in mind...the different breeding lines of GSDs started somewhere. Pedigrees have not always been tracked.
If the training plans work as I expect, I might consider breeding another litter. IT WILL NOT BE WITH ROSE THOUGH. At that point, it will only be with a registered female. That said, here is what I ran into before I got Rose in looking for a GSD. If anyone can recommend a line that produces these types of GSDs, please email it to me.
1. Dog must have a natural (not trained) calm unexcitable demenor. This is actually hard to find than you would imagine.
2. Dog must have a natural inteligence. Most any dog can be taught "tricks." It almost appears that Rose can reason simple things out. Remember, there is a difference between teaching a dog to open a gate by pushing a latch up and a dog that watches humans push up the latch and decides to do it themselves one day. (no incentive on the other side, dog did it just to do it and then sat down on the other side of the gate).
3. Dog must show no aggressive tendies. No growlling / barking in a strange situation. That is not to say that the dog will not be leary in a strange situation. The "protection" I get from Rose is more visual than anything. The minimal protection work we have done with her, she just simply puts herself between me and the threat and might put her paw on the aggressor. She makes no sound. This part she does natually.
4. Dog must be able to handle any situtation with confidence and head held high. If there is any question about how the dog will react in any situation, that dog will not work as a service dog.
A service dog must be able to go around all other animals with no effect.
A service dog must be able to handle any type of contact, including a squealling child coming up and throwing their arms around the dog.
A service dog must be able to handle going anywhere new. Example: construction zone, airport, parade, Six Flags (not on the rides of course).
A service dog must not require any correction to handle above.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```
Side note: Both Rose's sire and dam were Dallas police dogs.
by Sunsilver on 23 April 2012 - 04:04
Keith, I wasn't talking about dog from shelters, but imported dogs that are sometimes mixed breed (mal/shepherd). The breeders know the bloodlines really well, but don't bother with papers, even on some of their purebred stock. I've heard some of the Eastern bloc countries didn't bother overly much with papers on their police dogs.
by magdalenasins on 23 April 2012 - 11:04
Rose, you can have my husky lol. First day here from his last home he opened all the door in the house (except the front door) and is so chilled out and smart it's not even funny. I was thinking of training him to be a therapy dog as he is such a happy and happy looking dog.
by e c street on 23 April 2012 - 18:04
Why do I want to request for the puppies to be fixed - As Rose is not registered, I do not want any buyers to purchase with the intent to do BYB.
I feel like your breeding of your bitch is the epitomy of what you say you don't want others to do. There are others who probably feel the same way. Why don't you rethink this and see if this is really what you want to do. ecs
I feel like your breeding of your bitch is the epitomy of what you say you don't want others to do. There are others who probably feel the same way. Why don't you rethink this and see if this is really what you want to do. ecs
by fawndallas on 24 April 2012 - 18:04
"Why do I want to request for the puppies to be fixed - As Rose is not registered, I do not want any buyers to purchase with the intent to do BYB.
I feel like your breeding of your bitch is the epitomy of what you say you don't want others to do. There are others who probably feel the same way. Why don't you rethink this and see if this is really what you want to do. ecs"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Very few back yard breeders will take the time to do the homework on the potential stud and the health check for the female. Any puppies sold from my litter will be sold as house pets, nothing more.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This may all be a mute point, as there are only 2 females. The one that I have someone very interested in will have her fixed and the other will either stay with me or will be given to my dad as a service dog. Either way, this one will be fixed also.
I feel like your breeding of your bitch is the epitomy of what you say you don't want others to do. There are others who probably feel the same way. Why don't you rethink this and see if this is really what you want to do. ecs"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Very few back yard breeders will take the time to do the homework on the potential stud and the health check for the female. Any puppies sold from my litter will be sold as house pets, nothing more.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This may all be a mute point, as there are only 2 females. The one that I have someone very interested in will have her fixed and the other will either stay with me or will be given to my dad as a service dog. Either way, this one will be fixed also.
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