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by stevef on 17 June 2010 - 10:06
Mo no need. Ironically the 2 "new" style SV shows has had none of this either just a happier atmosphere in my opinion.
Onwards and upwards.
Steve Foran
PS Curious note. From the weekend the people making the most noise and showing bad manners ALL belong to clubs that have signed the KC undertaking. Good luck with that eh??
Onwards and upwards.
Steve Foran
PS Curious note. From the weekend the people making the most noise and showing bad manners ALL belong to clubs that have signed the KC undertaking. Good luck with that eh??
by noddi on 17 June 2010 - 10:06
Alyson.i have to agree with yu there.NAME AND SHAME ,not only on PDB.lets do it in the B/C and League magazines,both dog papers and on facebook.i dont see the point in being aggressive,one shouldnt be in the ring full stop while judging is in progress.i thought this was a KC rule that one should not converse with the judge and this was a KC run show.come on folks,less of the green eyed monster.lets be happy about others winning.as Steve F used to say,WINNING ISNT EVERYTHING BUT ITS BLOODY NICE.well that applies to everyone not just the choosen few.BE HAPPY FOR THE WINNERS AND BE A GOOD SPORT.Carole S.
by pencil on 17 June 2010 - 16:06
Brigid.
I timed the german chap 20mins at least, and i was outside the ring on the opposite side to them-so i dont understand how you missed him for so long !
your other point about the fantastic memory of these german judges, i have to say i envy them, they judge thousands of dogs around the world yet can readily recall each one lol! in that case the german chap need not have worn his kennel colours to bring attention to himself.
stevef.. the other thing that needs addressing is those two so called top handlers ( you know who i mean) should be stopped posing the dogs infront of the judges when its not their turn.
I timed the german chap 20mins at least, and i was outside the ring on the opposite side to them-so i dont understand how you missed him for so long !
your other point about the fantastic memory of these german judges, i have to say i envy them, they judge thousands of dogs around the world yet can readily recall each one lol! in that case the german chap need not have worn his kennel colours to bring attention to himself.
stevef.. the other thing that needs addressing is those two so called top handlers ( you know who i mean) should be stopped posing the dogs infront of the judges when its not their turn.
by Penny on 17 June 2010 - 16:06
Hi Pencil,
Now that I have unfurled myself from flying deutsche/Germans...have to say that I agree no-one should be talking to the judge really except good morning etc pleasantries and you can get a lot said in 20 mins.... but I feel sure Brigid wouldnt have had any interest in letting it continue if she had seen it going on.
Re German judges and their vast memories of dogs. I really believe this one, and I will tell you why. I stewarded at the 2 day show in Wales, where Herr Peter Knaul judged. I also stewarded for him in Poland - and believe me, the most amazing thing that i found both times, is that in large classes - his written down critique that he said for me to write, then came out almost verbatim on his verbal critiques for the spectators at the end of each class. I was amazed, as he never referred back to my notes that he had asked me to write, and yet, he mentioned going down the class, certain things that he also said to me - particularly in one quite large class, whereby he had changed the dogs around many times. He gave his verbal critique as if he was reading it from the notes he had asked me to make in the individual.... I was well jealous of that, but can quite see what a photographic memory they must have when they judge and study the dogs so much, its a bit of an obsession I think, rather than a hobby as it is to some of us.
Last point, I dont agree with though. I think when you have a handler on your dog, if that handler never stops for a moment making your dog look good, and never misses one little glance from the judge, he is doing you a great job.
Mo.
Now that I have unfurled myself from flying deutsche/Germans...have to say that I agree no-one should be talking to the judge really except good morning etc pleasantries and you can get a lot said in 20 mins.... but I feel sure Brigid wouldnt have had any interest in letting it continue if she had seen it going on.
Re German judges and their vast memories of dogs. I really believe this one, and I will tell you why. I stewarded at the 2 day show in Wales, where Herr Peter Knaul judged. I also stewarded for him in Poland - and believe me, the most amazing thing that i found both times, is that in large classes - his written down critique that he said for me to write, then came out almost verbatim on his verbal critiques for the spectators at the end of each class. I was amazed, as he never referred back to my notes that he had asked me to write, and yet, he mentioned going down the class, certain things that he also said to me - particularly in one quite large class, whereby he had changed the dogs around many times. He gave his verbal critique as if he was reading it from the notes he had asked me to make in the individual.... I was well jealous of that, but can quite see what a photographic memory they must have when they judge and study the dogs so much, its a bit of an obsession I think, rather than a hobby as it is to some of us.
Last point, I dont agree with though. I think when you have a handler on your dog, if that handler never stops for a moment making your dog look good, and never misses one little glance from the judge, he is doing you a great job.
Mo.
by pencil on 17 June 2010 - 23:06
penny-a noble effort to try and justify the german national judges with their extraordinary memories.but i see a total difference with them quoting what you wrote down as steward when the dogs are still infront of them,as opposed to remebering dogs from past shows from the many thousands that they must have seen around the world-now that would be a great memory to have, only more likely impossible-nice try though on your part.( as i said earlier why would the german in question bother to wear his tracksuit with his kennel all blazoned on the back ).
you selectively missed my point regarding the said two handlers ( obviously you may use them from time to time ) i meant when the judge is about to see the next dog in the queue to have his/her assessment along come these herberts and pose the dogs they are handling-or they may run round the ring-NOW if we all did that what a right old state the proceedings would develop into. you imagine if i had a dog in the ring and went and stood infront of them or ran around the ring when they do, then others got the same idea.fortunately we dont all think we own a devine right to do as we please.
you selectively missed my point regarding the said two handlers ( obviously you may use them from time to time ) i meant when the judge is about to see the next dog in the queue to have his/her assessment along come these herberts and pose the dogs they are handling-or they may run round the ring-NOW if we all did that what a right old state the proceedings would develop into. you imagine if i had a dog in the ring and went and stood infront of them or ran around the ring when they do, then others got the same idea.fortunately we dont all think we own a devine right to do as we please.
by Penny on 18 June 2010 - 09:06
Well, I must be missing a little when judging then pencil, because when it comes to critiques verbally, I often have to re-call the dogs age for instance, and sometimes, in stance at the end of the class, perhaps I look again, and make absolutely sure from my notes that I didnt miss a dog that looks better than the other in stance, so I check my notes to see why I have that dog in that particular place..... do other judges think like this? or do I have to up my act.
As for handlers, I wasnt selectively missing your point, the only points I selectively miss are insulting needless points... and of course, if the handler is behaving discourteusly to the other dogs having their individual, then its very annoying and not good practice, but perhaps this thread can lead up to a good practice code of ethics... that would be worthwhile.
Dont shadow the dog doing its individual
Dont talk to the judge other than greeting politely until the show is finished
dont over run
dont wear your kennel name in the ring
dont shout obsceneties at the owner of the dog if they dont do the right thing
dont charge money (oh whoops sorry guys)
Mo.
As for handlers, I wasnt selectively missing your point, the only points I selectively miss are insulting needless points... and of course, if the handler is behaving discourteusly to the other dogs having their individual, then its very annoying and not good practice, but perhaps this thread can lead up to a good practice code of ethics... that would be worthwhile.
Dont shadow the dog doing its individual
Dont talk to the judge other than greeting politely until the show is finished
dont over run
dont wear your kennel name in the ring
dont shout obsceneties at the owner of the dog if they dont do the right thing
dont charge money (oh whoops sorry guys)
Mo.
by pencil on 18 June 2010 - 10:06
penny.
yes excellent set of points for us all to agree to.
when we are ALL under the NEW show umbrella can we not get them written into the rules somehow ( excluding the one about handlers ).
yes excellent set of points for us all to agree to.
when we are ALL under the NEW show umbrella can we not get them written into the rules somehow ( excluding the one about handlers ).
by Doppelganger on 18 June 2010 - 10:06
How about having a rule where owners have to handle their own dogs? That would solve all the above problems. And there would be no need for double handling. A level playing field!
by Penny on 18 June 2010 - 16:06
Doppeldanger
You wouldnt desire that I take myself around a medium to small ring, running my dog would you - perish the thought., bruises on my knees from the wallop of my boobs no less would occur, be sensible !!
You wouldnt desire that I take myself around a medium to small ring, running my dog would you - perish the thought., bruises on my knees from the wallop of my boobs no less would occur, be sensible !!
by pencil on 19 June 2010 - 10:06
jaymesie51
i'll be there on the day as i said birth certif in hand and other documents for you- will you have someone to read them to you or would you like me to read them out.
by the way £100 in english pounds cash-not some old cheque you can cancel when you are away from the show.
no need to answer this in your usual retoric, just be there with the money.
i'll be there on the day as i said birth certif in hand and other documents for you- will you have someone to read them to you or would you like me to read them out.
by the way £100 in english pounds cash-not some old cheque you can cancel when you are away from the show.
no need to answer this in your usual retoric, just be there with the money.
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