What is your opinion on Schutzhundsport in the USA ? - Page 5

I have to agree........this would help......

"If everyone would leave their ego at the door, it would help clubs get together, train and learn from each other."

"If people would actually respect and support each other and not go to trials wishing half the people would fail, that would at least be a start!"
 
 

I think being able to network is a great idea but for whatever reason(s) it just doesn't seem to pan out very often which really sucks. It always seems to boil down to this person doesn't like this person who doesn't like that person who doesn't like that dog or you have to pay a field fee or you can only come x number of times before you are required to join...blah blah blah.... Even at trials how much outside support do clubs usually get?

DVG does not have a yearly trial/event requirement to remain a club though it does cut down on available trials it doesn't force smaller clubs to fold or reach in their member's pockets to break even every year on top of everything else they spend.  

Keith Jenkins

I like this topic.  the issues that you guys brought up are exactly the reasons why my girl's parents were never titled in shutzhund.   I asked him about any good shutzhund clubs and he didn't really know any close to me and didn't really recommend any that he has been too.  He tried out numerous clubs and took classes in shutzhund and entered competitions a couple of times.  He said he just couldn't stand the attitude and people were mean and degrading.  he wanted to learn and enjoy the sport.   People would just totally just rip apart about somebody's dog so he has seen numerous people drop out of the sport.   

I started taking classes with a trainer at National level in Shutzhund.  the trainer wasted most of my time drooling over my dog and admiring her confirmation, etc. and kept on asking where I got her.   She asked for a pedigree and couldn't believe that somebody walked into her training center with a dog with that good of lines.   Finally, got sick of her drooling over her and felt she wasnt helping train with her and dropped her class.   I was going to drive 1 hr each way and waste my money.  Plus, she didn't think it was a big deal with wanting my dog to learn to ignore strange dogs.   She was attacked at 5 months old and if she thinks a dog is aggressive, she will try to take them down.   She hates that dog with outmost passion and learned this summer (went through my house window and thank goodness my second story window was closed) that she can almost take it down.  Her only 66# versus Great pyranese.  She is much better than she used to be around strange dogs as long as she doesn't hear or see that Great Pyranese for awhile.  Sadly haven't managed to blow a hole in that dog.  I think my neighborhood would through a block party if somebody managed to kill it.  This problem makes it a little hard trying to join clubs.  I don't want anybody's dog injured.    haven't managed to find a decent trainer familiar with the breed.

I would like to share my thoughts.....

I am now 25. I started Schh about 4 years ago. Being 21 at the starting gate, I didn't have much money to devote to training, but I knew I wanted to do it. I started out with a small group of people who mainly trained showlines, but they welcomed me and my workingline having self right in!

The training, for the most part, was inexpensive. But it was all group training.

Fast forward a year or two, and I was hooked! I decided I needed another dog (my first lacking the confidence to take me the distance in the sport). I worked my ass off to save up for a nice dog!

I switched trainers and started taking private lessons. I also joined Mid Atlantic WDC.
I will have to agree that I get much more accomplished during my private lessons, but I learn a heck of a lot during club day (just by watching everyone else).

Our club is wonderful-  we pay our annual dues, but the price we pay is well worth the training on the weekends. The best part is that it is A KNOWN fact that there is no money exchanged on club day. Nobody makes any money. We are all there to have fun, support each other, and train our dogs.
My trainers have been great with me. It is almost like they feel that I am the future of the sport, so I need to be filled with knowledge through my eyeballs- which I appreciate more than I can say! They sure do their part to keep the sport alive in the younger generation. I guess I am lucky to find people who are willing to show me the ropes, and not have to give up my first born child to pay for it.
They have brought me with them to multiple clubs where I have met many fantastic people!

Basically there needs to be more people like my trainers who do it for the love of the sport! And they sincerely want to help people learn!!
And don't get me wrong, Schutzhund can get super expensive. I spend a decent amount of money on gas each week, dog food, equipment- oh and dont forget the price of my dog! Wooo
But I give up a lot of other things to be able to afford my schutzhund lifestyle. I love it so much, so I dont have nice designer clothes or hand bags, etc etc.
So in the same way, we need people in my generation who have the desire to push for something they really want! They need to be willing to make sacrifices, and learn anyway possible..even if that means just visiting a club without your dog to spectate and learn- talk with people and make connections!

I really wish there were more people my age who were involved in schutzhund. We need to do some demos, and get people "in the know". It is not a very well known sport, and we need to get out there and get the younger people involved!

Amanda

afwark15, consider yourself very lucky that you have a good, welcoming club near yor home.  I suggest you get more folks near your own age involved with your club, if possible.  This situation is NOT the norm in any club near my home.  I respect your sacrifice, but for you to say dog training should be a "sacrifice" is just plain lunacy for most potential participants.  This is a "hobby" and nothing good will come from telling newcommers that schutzhund is a "sacrifice" and "labor of love".  Nothing should come easy, but a hobby shouldn't at all be like going to work or paying bills.  Your experience makes it seem more like a job with financial upkeep; and if thats really the case schutzhund has no future with folks under 40 years of age in the USA.  

Remember we have to overcome: the public perception of bitework, the public perception of all styles of training collars, a sport that can only be done with a limited number of breeds, high costs of entry and upkeep, possible unfriendly atmosphere at some clubs and on top of all that you want to throw in "sacrifice" and "labor of love" type sentiments.  Europeans are running this sport correctly.  In fact I recently met with someone from Austria at a recent club gathering and she could not believe the costs of the sport in the USA (BTW she only does AKC Rally in the USA ,depsite owing GSD's and having done Schutzhund in Austria for 15 years!)

I don't recommend any of us stand in front of the exit doors, because newcomers will be stampeding for the exits! 

We are talking about dog training a couple of times a week at a club, not prepping for nascar amateuer series qualifyers.  This kind of thinking isn't going win us any new fans in the USA. 

Also, there needs to be rules in a club.  the person I was looking at to breed my girl too went to a shutzhund club near chicago for the first time to try it out.   A dog made a mistake and the handler dragged behind a barn and started beating it because of the mistake.   not one single person tried stopping it.   She decided that no the shutzhund club was not for her when they tolerate animal abuse.  I personally would have video taped it with my camera for a few seconds for the police, immediately called the police, and then try to stop it, and then would have words with everyone in the club.   Beating a dog should never ever be tolerated by anyone. 

I really don't think anyone is being over dramatic when it comes to the time and money commitment involved here in the US in regards to IPO. It is a labor of love no matter how you want to paint it and that is the truth. There is sacrifice involved for people with limited resources either financial and/or available time commitment. If you want to be successful at the sport it can be hard work.


Keith

EliDog and afwark15, I understand what you are saying and I agree.  But you must understand that if thats the message we send out to new members, schutzhund has no future with the under 40 crowd and will die on the vine.  We have too many "other" perception issues that have to be overcome first, you can't also throw in "sacrafice" with "financial commitment" and expect there to still be a schutzhund following in the USA in 20 years.  I hate to say but some things are going to have to change for getting newbies involved, if it doesn't happen in the next decade the sport will cease to exist.

Just to give an example of what I mean: maybe schutzhund clubs need to get newbies to complete thier BH, AD and OB-1's by ANY MEANS NECESSARY.  This could mean smaller club fees, smaller helper fees, lots of out of the norm hand holding and other encouraging elements, until they get a BH, OB-1 and AD.  If something like this isn't done soon, young people will never know what they are missing and will have NO INCENTIVE to save the sport in the USA.  Its already happening and claiming schutzhund only wants a "certain type" of participant is going to sink everyone involved today, down the road.  All sports and hobbys of this nature NEED less serious participants to survive, without them an entire generation of hopefuls can be lost.  You guys may not like the "weekend warrior", but believe it or not, the sport as a whole needs them to survive.  Its about time that the clubs start accommodating "weekend warriors".  What you you don't see is that the "weekend warriors" CHILDREN are likely the source of the next serious schutzhund particpant, not the "weekend warrior" parent that does it to train a new family dog and quits training in a year.

Think about all the things I stated earlier about Gen Y and Millenials:

1) Insist on using harness like contraptions for training

2) Most have sub 15 pound dogs or some kind mastiff breed (usually a pitbull)

3) Overwhelmingly support animal rights causes

4) May view dog sports with bite work as cruel

5) Most likely have never had a large dog in thier youth, most had pocket pets and if lucky a cat or small dog like a Chihuahua because thier parents thought those were "safer choices"

6)  Most live in apartments and those that do live in homes, have landlords that prefer cats, chihuahuas and malteses, while outright banning GSDs, Dobermans and Rottweilers.

7) They are economically strained and in my opinion aren't likley to have any big salary gains in thier careers over the next decade

8)  Are only aware of AKC venues for dog training and titling due to Animal Planet

9) Most likey expect a LOT of hand holding while getting trained, which many schutzhund clubs don't like doing, but AKC clubs will do.

And to top of all the above, you guys are saying "well, you need money for this sport and without a lot of time dedication and financial sacrifice we would prefer you go elsewhere, otherwise you are wasting out time"

WHO UNDER THE AGE OF 30 IS GOING TO BUY INTO ALL THIS, LET ALONE BEING ABLE TO AFFORD OWNING A GSD?

I personally don't think many will and those that do won't be large enough in numbers to keep things going in 20 years

Not trying to throw any particular age group under the bus but I can't give work ethic to someone. People are like our dogs when it comes to drive, either it's there or enough to be developed that it will serve it's purpose. I can't force someone to what to work their dog enough to show progress. I will encourage most definately but I'm not going to lie or sugar coat what it takes to title a dog. The ultimate responsibility lies with the individual. I would rather see one dedicated person join a club than 5 others who do nothing but mill around at training and for all practical purposes waste limited resources.

Keith

I am gonna have to go ahead and agree with keith.

Although I do understand the point mamosgarage is making.

I believe that for a hobby, people (even people my age) can enjoy schutzhund without making sacrifices. But to really have ambitions to title a dog to a SchH 3, and to compete, it is without a doubt a way of life!!

One can enjoy it without breaking the bank, but if you have any hopes of competing, sacrifices need to be made.

Amanda