Cesar with OJ the trainer, A lesson in Aggression - Page 5

 DOBERDOODLE - JUST READ YOUR POST ...  YOU MADE A NICE POST.  SO .. INDIFFERENCE ?? ha.. THE DOG IA SENSE TRUST & SAFETY IN THE DOG'S MIND "?? ?? [ MAYBE .. THE DOG WOULD SETTLE IF YOU MADE IT REALIZE HIS FOOD AND WATER CAME ONLY FORM YOU WHEN HE ACTS CALM].  .AND WHETHER YOU THINK  IT OR NOT ... THE DOG IS SIZING UP ALSO A RANK WITH YOU [ MAYBE FOR STARTERS THIS DOG LEARNS TO TRUST YOU BECAUSE YOU CONTROL EVEN THE MOST MINUTE RESOURCE FOR HIM TO SURVIVE] . !! I GOT THE IMPRESSION .. SHE DOESN'T FEEL THIS DOG IS RELIABLE !![ AND WHY NOT .. SHE GAVE THE IMPRESSION :   DOG I'M NOT YOUR FRIEND AND DON'T CARE TO BE. -- MAYBE SHE DOESN'T REALIZE BY NATURE ' DOGS ARE PACK ANIMALS THAT WORK TOGETHER TO SURVIVE'.  WHO KNOWS ... MAYBE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS DOG NEEDED FROM DAY 1 .. A FRIEND. A TRUSTING COMPANION ..  ALSO SHE TALKED ABOUT  WHAT SHE DID BUT NOT WHY THE DOG WAS HANDLER AND DOG AGGRESSIVE . ? WHY WAS IT .. MAYBE SHE DIDN'T HAVE TO USE THAT E COLLAR. MAYBE INSIDE THE DOG IS CONTROLLING ITSELF .. BUT MADE WORSE.. 

Don't have time to watch video right now but from the looks of the still photo,,,,,,that animal is stressed the "F" out.  Mouth open, tongue dragging, whole body collapsed and hugging the ground.  Literally looks afraid to even move let alone stand up.  I'll watch it later this evening when I have more time and if my opinion changes I will let you know.

 PHIL .. both dogs in both videos are very anxious , uncertain and quite worried .  very worried. stressed [ sarcastically , you think ? ], you were tactful in just saying stressed  ..  could go as far as saying ... Fearful  !!......hence my commentary about understanding the origin of behavior   .. good call phil. 

I agree with the original assessment of the video by Phill. But the video is a promotion for average public dog owner and not actual instructional video. The video promotes to public that they should train  their  dogs. Do you think it would be better promotion if the dog would be in a kill mode and trainers were struggling and someone would get bitten? Cesar Milan is there to promote OJ. It worked. Id say good job on promoting dog training and OJs business.   OJ is an excellent trainer and there are not many people who can train dog all the way to  PSA3. He did. And he even was not a GSD!:) 
I know OJ personally. He is a great guy. And very good common sense dog  trainer. He is very polite with people he is always genuinely smiling and always has time for you.
Hans

 The video sucked only in that the dog aggression our protagonist had was, if any, mediocre at best compared to much aggression we see in dogs. 

Cesar's expertise these days does seem to be in acting, rather than dealing with aggression...or dogsport, for that matter. 

OJ is a businessman, and an astute one at that.  Good for OJ.  

That said, he's also a dog trainer, and enjoys specializing in dog aggression.  He trains in our sport, Mondioring, with his dog Cannibal; I think he also used to judge in PSA.  His demeanor is calm and helpful, and I wouldn't hesitate to train with him if what he offered was what I was looking for.  I have trained in his weekend class a couple of times, know him fairly well, and having him deal with dog aggression is one I'd think he's very competent at dealing with.

Phil, you and I both know the general, pet owning public can't handle seeing what needs to be done to to stop a truly aggressive dog. The one in the video was just an untrained brat, which, as someone said, is most most people have.  What I liked was seeing someone actually use obedience, distraction, and control in a situation to work through misbehavior. A step closer to real training than the Cesars and Victorias of the world, imo.

Dog training shows, in general, are horrible and a waste of time to anyone serious about training. The only one worth a damn was the Monks of New Skete's show, which got canned, I'm sure becuase they stressed training takes and time and effort (not 30 min) and they used *gasp* corrections and training collars.

And they are monks....
In today's culture of instant gratification people want to see on TV in all those dog training shows how everything is fun (everything  must be  always fun), easy, gentle/positive and most importantly fast dog training by these gurus is. 
If you tell people that dog training takes, knowledge, experience, repetition up on repetition,  discipline, consistency, persistence, time and long term commitment people glaze over or look at you as you would have 2 heads. What usually gets them is the "long term commitment" part.  I have dealt several times with dogs overly aggressive to their owner where the owner would rather put perfectly salvageable dogs down rather then work with the dogs 5 minutes 2 -3 times per day and obey by certain rules in every day life. 

 As far as Cesar Milan goes I like him. It is easy to say bad things about anybody and when I started to watch the show I was ready to bash too. But I stopped myself and look at him what he does. He is a great success after all and eve so I am just as good dog trainer as he is I am not near as succesfull as he is.  His techniques are based on good psychology and are successful. What I admire about him is his patience with customers and his ability to convince them what needs to be done with simple and effective communication with them.
 I have heard from many trainers ( especially beginners)  that they do no like people and that is why they want to work with dogs. But training is mainly working with people. Dogs will not exist without people.
And that is what i admire about Cesar Milan and OJ Knighten too.

Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

Absolutely true, Prager! I suppose less effective training is better than no training for many pet owners, and at least if someone says to themselves, "hey, maybe I can fix my dog, too" and they start calling dog trainers, it beats the hell out of the dog living in the basement.