Dog Whisperer vs. It's Me or the Dog - Page 5

"I wonder about some dogs like that , if they are mentaly damaged like a autistic child"

An Autistic child isnt mentally damaged. They are just different and need extra care! If the dog changed it behaviour after a specific programme then it clearly didnt have mental problem it just had issues and fears that it needed to get over!

I like Cesar..just for the simple reason that if he can make dog owners aware of the fact that you have to meet the dog needs to get a balance dog, that in itself is an achievement.

For the methods...well i'm sure it is working in some cases.   i'm glad it happened some times that Cesar says this is just not the right dog for the person..and the fact that he puts a lot of emphasis on what it is to be a responsible dog owner sounds good to me.

Also..he makes peole realise how body langage affects your entire attitude and your dog reaction to it.  I tink the ones who loves him like the animal inside the guy..his sensitivity and his calm...He has this Zen kind of feeling people loves so much these days..

Nobody is perfect and it is a TV show.. not everything is fake but some is.

One the veterinarian working at my clinic is a specialist in dog behavior (and he is Mexican too)...He hates him!!  But he realise that not all the things that Cesar does is garbage.

I think more dogs are going to walks and doing things with their owners because Cesar tells them to do..If dogs are more happy...then I'm happy too!

@Sunsilver....Just a general question.  I have read on this forum and other that some people wouldn't want their working dog that submissive.  I was wondering if it you could have a dog that submissive and it still be a great working dog.  A
You also bring up a good point.  With regards to working dogs, I have read also on here and other forums that some want a dog that can attack on command and have 100% obedience but also you want a dog that can engage should something happen when you can't give a command. 

@GSDGuy...Yeah I saw a episode where he mentioned that.  I would have like to have seen how he was.

Cesar admits that he isn't a trainer as he is a dog behaviorist and works on rehabilitation.  Traning is a area that he isn't in.

July....I agree with you I think it has really opened the eyes of dog owners and shown them what they are doing.  They have put dog training out in the mainstream and have made people more aware of what they are doing wrong.

Many dog trainers have made more money with these shows being put on tv.  Its like the Tiger Woods effect on golf.  Everyone is making more money due to him being such a draw.

 Ace I would have liked to see it too. I just remember the episode with the horse and the whip lol.  Daddy lit up when he heard that whip pop. He was ready to go.   Cesar also talked about trusting Daddy to stay home and protect his family.  I think everyone has a misconception of Cesar with his dogs though.  They think he is strictly submission....submission......submission.  He plays with his dogs at times, he even gets them excited at times, he also plays fetch, and lets them run and play and be dogs.   I even remember an episode where he had Daddy at someones house, a guy who was scared to death of dogs.  Cesar helped the guy overcome it by taking him to his psychology center, but later on in the show he had Daddy at the guys house and Daddy was rolling on his back, growling.....out of play, my dogs do this too, but he would play with his mouth on his arm, making noises, and just acting like a goofy dog.  Daddy was just playing with him.  

People seem to have so many misconceptions about Cesars methods.  The alpha roll is said by many that you pick the dog up in the air, slam him down and put him on his back and hold him by the throat....I haven't seen Cesar do it like that.  Cesar also always follows it by a massage or petting after the dog relaxes.  Everyone says the alpha roll doesn't work also and that dogs don't do it forcefully, well done right and without anger or fear of the person doing it yes it will work properly in a lot of cases.  Not to mention I have seen dogs do it forcefully.  I don't care for some of Cesar's methods, but I do like that more and more people are walking their dogs every day and having them as a part of their life in a more proper way, and not in the fur baby/neurotic chiuaua way.  Not all of his methods are good, but things like the no touch/talk/eye contact are helpful to a lot of dogs, the whole energy thing is helpful, and even he says at times he can't be too assertive for certain dogs.  Not to mention structured walks each day help a ton as far as balance and how well they listen to you.   

@GSDguy...lol, I just watched that episode a few days ago.  That is where he mentioned that Daddy was PP trained and kinda put it out there that a whip is used during his training.  Daddy started to bark and she shut him up each time.  I was surprised that he shut him up.  I wonder does that hinder the dog in training?  Or is it b/c it isn't a threat he should ignore?

Yeah I wish we could get to see him spend more time with the dogs on a more day to day basis.  More of a what is a typical day for him with the dogs.

Yeah I saw the other episode as well about the guys fear of dogs and that was a good thing to see him be around and overcome and finally get a dog in the house.  And yeah I had a collie and Akita and use to play with him like that.

Yeah people seem to focus way more on the negative than the positive.  Just from reading this board alone with all the dog trainers on here, they all disagree on technique.  His methods have worked for me and I will admit he has made me pay more attention and read up more ot learn.  I see that I need the training and not the dog.

I watch and enjoy both shows.  I never watched an episode of either where I disagreed with the solutions offered.  But the producers never show how the problem poochie behaves when Cesar or Victoria leave.  From a male standpoint, it's tough to criticize an atractive lady who drives an "E" Jag. 

Dog Bum...you said they never show how the dog acts when they leave.  On both shows they never state that the dog is rehabilitated or completely trained once Victoria of CM leave, just that they have to continue what they were taught so that they will eventually be rehabilitated....or trained to the point needed.  I think people commonly have the belief that both shows are saying the dogs are perfect after an hour of training.....when really it's done over days or weeks....and then continued by the owner for months and months, if not years depending on how severe the problem is.

Definitely not Stillwell.  She gives me the creeps.  "Eat your cereal out of the bowl in front of your dog and show him who's boss!"  Well, better hope Fido isn't one of the sorts of dogs who will attack you for the food...There might be a fight over that cereal bowl!

That whole dominatrix thing, the way she treats the dogs...YIKES!

As for Milan, I don't agree with everything he says, but as a result of watching his show, I have become a more observant person with dogs.  I find that I have better luck dealing with my own dogs, and other people's, as well, because I am aware of how my posture and my emotional state affect the dog.  I use some of his methods, simply because they make sense, but I use them with other methods I have used over the years from a variety of other sources.  

Saying that Milan has set dog training back 20 years is like saying that the invention of the E-Collar set training back.   I don't believe that's true.  Some trainers will not use the collar, but that doesn't mean it's not a good choice for someone else.  Some will abuse them, too.

I really think that dog training is about common sense, not ridicule.  Exercise, discipline, and affection makes sense.  Kids need the same!

Crys

 IMHO, they are both good, instinctive handlers, not trainers. A friend forwarded me an article recently where they did a follow up with a number of the dogs CM had on his show. Every one of them was back to exhibiting the original behavior that got them on the show and many had even escalated. One dog had most of his teeth removed at the vet's suggestion so when he would bite the damage wouldn't be so bad! 
We allowed It's me or the dog to film an episode at our place last spring. While VS was very nice, she is not what we would consider a trainer. It was very obvious the show's producer was calling the shots and coming up with the drama and then the solution. The "aggressive" doberman she was working on was really just unruly, not anything like the dogs we deal with around here. She was an aspiring actress who took up dog walking in order to have a job that she could work around auditions. One of her clients was a TV producer who was looking for show ideas, and voila. She never even had her own dog until recently.
She was a very friendly person and asked all kinds of questions about our Schutzhund club and K9 training, but she wasn't educated (self or otherwise) about training or behavior. I mentioned Premack at some point and she stopped me to ask what it meant. I never got to finish the explanation because the lights were ready and they had to start filming. 
I have watched an episode or two of each show, but couldn't stomach any more.