tracking/trailing - Page 5

Yoshy,

some more devils advocate here,
You feel schh accurate gages a dogs tracking ability? nerves, environmental change, duration, endurance, depth of nose abilities, mental strain, etc????????

I said:
Although, SchH tracking is not "real" world tracking it is still a good test of the dogs ability to work and and focus. In some ways SchH tracking is more demanding than other styles of tracking because of the precision required

SchH tracking is designed to test a dog's ability to concentrate, track and focus.  It is a test and is graded.  For competitions all the tracks have to be graded in the same way.  So it is a standardized test of sorts.  A well trained SchH dog will not stop to pee on a track, will not deviate from the track and will work the entire length of the track in a consistent methodical steady pace.  This is not natural for a dog and requires self control.  It is not real world tracking and a SchH 1 or 2 track is really not difficult for a dog.  A schH 3 or an FH becomes more challenging. 

My point was a dog with a good foundation in footstep tracking learns how to problem solve and rely on his nose.   When converted to air scenting they will easily switch between the two and utilize the strongest scent available.  I can watch my dog work ground disturbance and switch to air scent when he gets close to the subject.  My dog will also track on streets with his nose to the asphalt when he is hot on a scent. 

It has been my experience with local hobbyists and low-mid level competitors that have come out really do not know how to truly read there dog on live trails. That has been one of the biggest obstacles to over come with new guys as its some thing you dont learn over night and different dogs have different tells. You cant just read a book on it and it takes time.

You are 100 % correct here.  It's not that the dog can't do it it is that the handler can't read the dog.  One of the biggest things is to learn the dog's loss of scent indication.  This can be tricky for a novice, but is critical to be successful in Police K9 or SAR tracking.  You must know when the dog is on track and reference that constantly, you must then know immediately when your dog has lost the track.  I will let my dog work it out on his own and my dog will actively hunt for the track.  But if need be I can bring my dog back to the last place he had the track and restart him there, aiding him to reacquire the scent. 

This is not always easy to do.  Even when I do SchH style tracking with my dogs I design tracks where they will lose the track, with "jump offs" for example.  I know exactly where the dog will lose the track and this does two things: 1 I can clearly see the loss of track indication. 2; it teaches the dog to remain calm, not get stressed and the dog learns to work to find the track.  It is a problem solving exercise for the dog to build confidence. 

It is much harder in an urban environment with all of the distractions to handle a dog and be successful tracking.  There is no doubt about that. 

Jim

Hey Jim- When you do the "jump offs" do you just stand there and let the dog work it out and then move on when the dog picks up the sent again? I like the idea of  that.
~L~

Lavk-9,
I inititially lay a leg of a track then hop across to my left or right about 2 - 3' to the side and 2 -3 feet or more backwards.

Kind of like this:

------------------------------x
                  x--------------------------------------------------------------

Then like this:
-----------------------------------------------------x
                                                                       x--------------------------------

Then:
-------------------------------------------------------------x
                                                                              
                                                                                             x----------------------------------

The whole idea is to make the dog lose the track at a known location and watch the behavior.  In a SchH trial you can't help the dog, (well but so much) so you need to know when he's lost it.  On these training tracks I will stand still and let the dog work it out, just as I would in a trial.  The dog learns to relax and not panick when or become hectic when it encounters a problem.  I will bait the track shortly after the "jump off" to reward the dog and settle it in to tracking again.  I also like to watch how the dog reacts to the loss of track. 

Jim

Thanks that is kinda how I was invisioning it but not the first diagram. Now where the 'x' is on the jump over on the first diagram I am taking it that you walk back a few feet then go forward again.Where on that track would you lay the bait? Where the "x" is back where you started? Or ahead where you had ended the other track?  Cause I am thinking if it were to be baited where the x is then the dog might catch wind of it and back track.

x------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                 x------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                 ^bait there or                          ^there and forward
~L~

double post

Lavk-9,
I actually try to jump backwards and to the side or you can take one or two large strides backwards and then jump to the side. I will bait the first track past the point of the start of the side track. I will bait the side track initially from where I step over and start the side track.


I would bait here
x x x xxx x
--------------------------------------------------x

I would bait here the first time
x_x__x__x___x__x__x__x__x___x__x_------------------------------

Baiting the first leg in the same spot keeps the dog on the track until it ends. The dog will start to cast or circle when it looses the track and if it does wind up casting backward it will hit the bait and be rewarded and continue tracking.

eventually it will be like this with the bait:



---------------------------------------------------------------------X

                                                                                                                                                                          Bait here
                                                                                                               X---------------------------------------____________
Jim

Second diagram keeps getting screwed up:


-------------------------------------------X

                                                                                                                                 Bait here
                                                                               X----------------------------_______________________





Jim

Ok thanks for that info. I will have to work with that and my dog.My trouble with mine is he goes fast.He seems to relax when I do a long track and then he settles into it. I mostly like to play games with him to get him thinking like taking a rock from my gravel driveway and rubbing my hand on it,tossing it in the rest of the gravle and then telling him to go find it.He does his own area search in a zig zag pattern till he catches the sent and then pin points it and takes the rock and brings it too me.Or I will take a rock and toss it in the dry river bed with all the other river rocks and have him find it.He loves to work!!
~L~

Lavk-9,
I do lots of article searches and we often challenge the other handlers.  We will use dandelion flowers and throw it into the other dandelions, we often challenge each other.  Right now the challenge is an eye lash on concrete in aparking lot.   Our dogs have indicated on it, but most of the time it's too small for us to find.  I have used little twigs or blades of grass at demos.  The dogs seem to have more trouble on concrete than in grass when teaching articles.  We have recovered ots of evidence at crime scenes like shell casings, stolen property and lots of firearms.  It is amazing what the dogs can do.

Jim