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by Slamdunc on 29 January 2010 - 21:01
Phil,
To compete at a high level with any dog takes skill. Of course you need a dog that is sensitive to its handler and wants to work. Unlike you, I can admit that there are great malis out there and great GSD's. I can also see the forest from the trees and know that every mali is not suitable for sport or work, just like the GSD. Why do you always have to go to extremes. I've seen malis being sold to PD's that just can't handle the work and the same for GSD's. Let's not think every mali is a super dog and can do it all.
Jim
To compete at a high level with any dog takes skill. Of course you need a dog that is sensitive to its handler and wants to work. Unlike you, I can admit that there are great malis out there and great GSD's. I can also see the forest from the trees and know that every mali is not suitable for sport or work, just like the GSD. Why do you always have to go to extremes. I've seen malis being sold to PD's that just can't handle the work and the same for GSD's. Let's not think every mali is a super dog and can do it all.
Jim
by yoshy on 29 January 2010 - 21:01
so phil tell me something.
would you agree old style gsd's(ddr/czech) are hard? as a generalization of course?
If they are so untrainable how did they end up supplying the military police and tactical units throughout the world with these dogs for 80 years? How come those same dogs were titled out when schh and knvp were tougher dog tests and not sports for handlers? How come The border patrol dogs are still competing at top levels while preforming there duty if they are untrainable?
Dont tell me a dog cant be trained because it is an all around hard dog. Most of the DDR legends were some hard hard dogs. Look where it got them. A place in history as the best!!!! Now everyone is trying to recreate them as most of your sensitive dogs are cutting the mustard in the real world.
Max himself said it best. If you breed for sport it will improve for 3 generations and then it will be your downfall. Schh should remain a test of the dog not become a sport. Now everyone wants to breed for sensitivity and sport to be easily trained and preform unrealistic routine trials with no pressure and no real tests. This is why the breed has been watered down!!!!!
would you agree old style gsd's(ddr/czech) are hard? as a generalization of course?
If they are so untrainable how did they end up supplying the military police and tactical units throughout the world with these dogs for 80 years? How come those same dogs were titled out when schh and knvp were tougher dog tests and not sports for handlers? How come The border patrol dogs are still competing at top levels while preforming there duty if they are untrainable?
Dont tell me a dog cant be trained because it is an all around hard dog. Most of the DDR legends were some hard hard dogs. Look where it got them. A place in history as the best!!!! Now everyone is trying to recreate them as most of your sensitive dogs are cutting the mustard in the real world.
Max himself said it best. If you breed for sport it will improve for 3 generations and then it will be your downfall. Schh should remain a test of the dog not become a sport. Now everyone wants to breed for sensitivity and sport to be easily trained and preform unrealistic routine trials with no pressure and no real tests. This is why the breed has been watered down!!!!!
by 4pack on 29 January 2010 - 21:01
I see alot of Mals that can do the bitework but look like whiped pups doing OB. Ears flat, tail so far up their ass it's sad to look at. They are just really sensative but all the drive in bitework brings them out . Totally different breed, totally different dogs. Mals don't fit my style or wants.
As far as them replacing the GSD, not gonna happen. People like the GSD for certain traits the Mal does not come with as often. I dislike the temp issues and looks of the Mals so much, if I couldn't have a GSD, I'd go with another working breed before the Malinois. I'd try airdales or bulldogs before the Mal.
As far as them replacing the GSD, not gonna happen. People like the GSD for certain traits the Mal does not come with as often. I dislike the temp issues and looks of the Mals so much, if I couldn't have a GSD, I'd go with another working breed before the Malinois. I'd try airdales or bulldogs before the Mal.
by Phil Behun on 29 January 2010 - 21:01
Never said that. If I see a good working dog of any breed I will be the first one to say that it is a nice working dog, not for me but a nice working dog. I wasn't going to comment at all on this thread until the statement was made "A Malinois could never "replace" a German Shepherd"
Just trying to give some credence to the OP's question. Like we have discussed in the past, the Malinois have even "infiltrated" the police forces of Germany and to such a degree that they rival outnumbering them. I just gave easy to find examples of the performances of both breeds. I used Vegas because of the popularity of the "puppies for sale" and breeding inquiries. On a National level, both the DVG and AWDF Championships this past year were won by Malinois, in fact, the same dog. On an International level, the FCI and DVG Meisterschaft were won by Malinois with the predominance of the top 20 being BBM (that would be Berger Belge Malinois for you grammar school participants). The breed (GSD) is being taken over and ruined by the show dog people, just ask Dr. Helmut Raiser.
"Phil, STOP bashing the showlines. They can work just like the other lines...you just happened to pick one to make them look bad...there are plenty of show dogs that can work and also compete with Malinois because there are plenty of good working German Shepherds in all the lines.!!!
You just have to open your eyes !!"
That quote came earlier from Gustav. This is the kind of mentality that is contributing to the demise of the breed. By a show of hands, "Who here believes that Vegas could place in the top 20 of an International SchH/IPO/VPG event?" Top 50? Even qualify?
by Prager on 29 January 2010 - 22:01
My point exactly. German police is using Malinois because SV is producing crap! German police used to have parallel trials with Bundessieger Prufung . But they stopped in protest to the type of GSDs generated by SV . This is not a fault of the GSD, but it is the fault of the sissified PC society sissifying the breed . Somewhere else I have asked and I ask again; where is the test of true courage and inherited protectiveness, alertness, interest in the surroundings, resilience to pain, endurance, service longevity, early maturity..... It is suppressed. SchH crowd will be happy if the dog will chase a toy sleeve on a helpers arm, dolly down stay without reaction when someone shoots a gun, walk in "U" pattern in heal and bring a dumbbell. Any Golden retriever will do that. By the way ; we used to call helpers "DECOYS"
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by Gustav on 30 January 2010 - 04:01
Phil, You don't know my mentality on the breed.....but ask all the show people on this database about Gustav. And take two guess why most of the show people don't want to hear from me. I have a track record on where I stand in regard to a working German Shepherd. People aren't going to change their views even when faced with facts and reality...so I say I'll agree with them and let time take over as it surely has and will continue to.
by Held on 01 February 2010 - 19:02
Slamdunc, not sure what you mean by this,To compete at a high level with any dog takes skill. Of course you need a dog that is sensitive to its handler and wants to work. The very first thing you need in aworking dog is his desire to work if you do not have that you have not got a working dog period.Do you think Tom leefdalhof the very famouse and high competion dog was handler sensitive dog.You think people like his owner who bent on reaching first place only do it motivationaly alone you be wrong.Tom and his parents and grand parents were extremely driven dogs and lot of his offsprings also possess high drives not always easy to handle when in high drive when learning certain excersizes.Have a nice one.
by Christopher Smith on 02 February 2010 - 05:02
Phil, you're trying to change religious faith with logic. That's a hard road to travel. They are in such a zealot's trance that they can't even acknowledge that video of the DMC korung. Anyway don't you know that Malinois are fad, just like rock-n-roll and hip-hop?
I did find this line from Hans very interesting. "German police is using Malinois because SV is producing crap!" Hans, since the SV does not breed dogs, can I assume that you mean breeders using the SV's rules or system?
I did find this line from Hans very interesting. "German police is using Malinois because SV is producing crap!" Hans, since the SV does not breed dogs, can I assume that you mean breeders using the SV's rules or system?
by Slamdunc on 02 February 2010 - 23:02
Well, I'm putting my GSD's up for sale and converting to Malis. Phil and Christopher have finally convinced me to switch. I have had such a hard time finding a good GSD for Police and sport work that I'm finally making the switch. I'm going to try to trade my GSD for a Mali, I just need to find one with all of the same traits and qualities. Or I'll sell my high end GSD for some good money and buy a good less expensive Mali. Maybe, I'll even make some money on the deal.
Jim
Jim
by yoshy on 02 February 2010 - 23:02
il take your k9 jim. send him right over.
il find you a prey happy mali for cheap.I know of 2 right now.
deal?
or you could send him my way for foster until you find the mali you want. haha.
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