high drive show lines? - Page 5

I don't think anyone is saying it is making it bettter, at least not on this board. The very first thing that needs to change is judging criteria for Sieger Shows, if you hit people where it hurts, their high ratings that allow them to charge thousands for puppies, it may force them to take a step back and start putting temperment first. The second thing that needs to happen is the cracking down of seedy behavior, rule breaking, bought titles, midnight trials, etc.  It will not motivate these breeders to take their dogs "all the way" in training, but it would be a start in weeding out dogs who can't hack it.

I hope I live to see they day, but I doubt it. So all breeders who still believe we can put workability back into showlines can do is continue to pick and choose dogs who have superior temperment for their line, train our dogs ourselves, and not patronize the cheaters with our business. Really, it's the best we can do. What no one really wants to address if the ones who have the most control over the GSD are the pet buyers! They want their big, red, laid back, lumbering beast and plenty of breeders are all too happy to give it to them for $2-4k! How do we combat that? Can we combat it?

I have also stated before that it seems a high measure of energy and speed is needed for high level sport. Does these mean a dog who is more calm, not as fast, but utterly committed in their bitework, fearless in every situation, but a snuggler in the home, is less of a good GSD? Does filling up a BSP with showline dogs have to be goal in order to produce sound, workable dogs? Make no mistake, you will hear no excuses come from my mouth. I don't even buy that "the dog had a bad day" crap.   A strong dog with truly superior training should never turn tail run off a field because it "had a bad day".  But I adore a good showline dog just the way they are.  Personally, I think the goal for both lines has become too extreme in their own ways, and most good dogs are found in the middle, with some exceptions, of course.

I had no idea when I was getting into GSDs that I as preparing myself for a liketime of wanting to crack my head into a wall.

Sitasmom, Can't give it up can you....don't worry you are in the majority and you have what you have. Let's take a look at the Czech showlines dogs that are black and red. They are the same genetics as the black in red dogs in these other places. So why is the drives and temperament much better generally? SIMPLE....the people in the Czech republic still have their priorities in place in that a dog must be a good working dog to breed or keep. They get rid of their pretty black and red dogs with weak temperament to the people in the U.S. and other countries. You see in that country you are more ridiculed if you have weak nerved dogs even show dogs. So they will still produce some weak nerved show dogs because the genetics are the same, BUT they ship out the pretty air heads to other countries. This is for the Black and Red dogs thta have the same genetic base as the one in the seiger show. You see if the dog is pretty and weak, like the dogs you saw in seiger show, these dogs won't thrive in their country and the people won't accept the excuses breeders make for these dogs. Other places don't have this integrity, thatt's why they try to defend the black and red. In the end it comes down to you have to infuse new blood into show dogs to change the LOOK and MIND of the dog. Yoy can try from all ways to Sunday to keep this genetic dog and you will not improve the performance...Sorry!! BTW, you don't have to believe me, I was saying this in 1998 when I was at the U S Seiger show, its ten years later, and working state in these dogs is worse yet.  I'm not a genius, people are hardheaded!!

I have a showline with awesome temperament and above average working ability for a SL. If I had of put more effort into him, he would have easily gone onto his SchH 3. He was very slow to mature, and now at 8, he still looks and acts like a 2 yr old. I am kind of starting to look at kennels for when I get my next dog and from what I see at the shows and on videos, the type of showline I have is few and far between. When I get a dog, I get it for life, and I am still unsure if I should take the risk of getting another showline knowing I could be 'stuck' with one that isnt what I want. I am starting to consider a working line.

Working line puppies are very expensive in Australia generally 3 times the average price of a quality show line and are difficult to obtain due to the lack of working line breeders in comparison to the multitude of show lines. Serious owners have been switching from GSD's to Malanios in recent times simply as they can't get a decent GSD which I think is a sad happening really.

I don't know how competitive my show line would be compared with a working line, but the dog is turning out as the breeder predicted who began breeding originally in dogsport applications many years ago. Fortunately although my breeder concentrates on showing nowdays, will not breed with soft dogs and uses a strong bitch line with his German imported male that produces hard temperament males that work well in protection, security and police work. The majority of show line breeders note in their advertising of litters, "not suitable for protection work" or the like. The police K9 trainer who tested our boy told us that only 1 in 50 tested for police work will pass the entrance test of temperament and is declining each year. There is now only a handful of breeders across Australia who advertise suitability in protection and security work and maintain the working ability of the breed in a show line base.

The color DOES NOT make the dog, temperament or workwise. Either the dog has it,  or it doesn't. A dog is a dog. That goes for both Working, and Showlines!

JMO!

 

I had mentioned Triumph's Gucci before as a Showline dog that worked. (Goes back to Quartz). This is what the dog lived for is to work. It is continuing on  thru his son Kaluv  v Whirling Thunder. PLUS... Russ Osburn is is the trainer of Kaluv, and there is no better trainer than Mr. Osburn. He is fair with the his corrections, when the dog needs them.
When the correct training is done, and you have the bloodlines that can do the job, there is your Working Showline.

nice work on the clip!

Gucci was 9 years old in the blog...

Is that what you perceive as work?  The SchHI protection performance for a conformation event?  Where's the tracking?  Where's the healing and the retrieves?  What does it look like when it's all put together on one day or a weekend?  What are the working scores at the big events?  If you are saying that this dog is a working machine, show us something other than conformation footage of goobers clapping that know little about the work and much about buying and selling puppies.