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by Pharaoh on 31 August 2009 - 16:08
It wasn't that she never had a random barker, she just didn't keep them and they never entered the gene pool.
If you lived in the socialist paradise where your dogs lived with you in the house and not in expensive land devouring outside kennels, a quiet calm dog would be very desirable when you are all there in a small space.
Pharaoh is very much like that, no random entertainment barking at all. For that reason, he is an excellent watch dog and crime deterrent. He does however, consider raccoons a good reason to bark.
I am sure there are always exceptions to the rule, but, I do believe that temperament has a high heritability index.
Michele
by kilo5518 on 01 September 2009 - 04:09
I don't see many West German working dogs on patrol in Ohio but I'm sure there are some good ones. People really seem to stereotype dogs into this or that, but if you have a solid breeding its really about training, environment and a little bit of chance to determine if they will be above average workers.
I am currently working a dog with an old DDR breeding and he has been great. His best years are still ahead of him. He is from the Lord line. He is shown above my name at a year and a half. He is pretty serious and his prey drive is as good if not better than shepherds from other areas. He had twelve suspect apprehensions off of hard surface, rural tracks or area searches and three road bites in his first nine months patrol, so for me DDR works.
I have only compared him to other patrol dogs he has worked with (and that has been many from several major and tiny police agencies.) We don't see many show type dogs like many of you experienced breeders do, but we know what type of dogs usually work, after a little bit of eval. Czech, DDR or West German ancestory isn't as important to us as drive, focus, and confidence in the individual dog.
Not to insult the intelligence of some but you still have to remember that Shutzund on a sterile field and actual work are two differant things. My dogs isn't a Shutzund dog but he is a certified dual purpose police canine. Some dogs that are excellent in these type of trials still have trouble with the distractions and stress of street patrol.
by K-9mom on 01 September 2009 - 22:09
I have to agree with you on the Ahron Granit Rose thing. I owned a daughter of his who was awesome at work, good level balance of and defense. She is a wonderful companion, safe off lead even with children, not dog aggressive, has flashy obedience, and as well as being Obedience Titled, is now an active Therapy Dog.
I kept a daughter of her's ( I prefer my boys but I can't breed without girls, LOL!) and she is proving to be a repeat of her mother, just a clown with people and playful with other dogs, WANTS to work with you and please you. She is 3 now and is Rally Obedience Titled, going for her CD this fall, and Agility in the spring (she has been held back in titles mostly due to my having to work weekends the last year or two). She too is a certified Therapy Dog. I am having as much fun with her as with my boys and that is quite rare around here (I just have a history of not getting along well working females, I don't know what it is), but this girl is different. Makes it fun again!!
From what I have seen of Ahron's progeny, I wouldn't hesitate to send anyone to those lines.
Tina
by jennie on 02 September 2009 - 09:09
www.youtube.com/user/dirkensdog#play/uploads/11/HNjX96qXpKQ
by phoebe on 03 September 2009 - 19:09
by Vikram on 03 September 2009 - 19:09
cheers
by phoebe on 03 September 2009 - 21:09
I have one 13-14 yo rescue GSD, probably a lab mix. She is very healthy, but I have had issues with her being overly protective of the house and neighborhood. I think it is a combination of poor nerves and little or no socialization. We got her as a young adult. Despite her flaws, and our inexperience, we decided that the breed suited us very well. We love her intelligence and loyalty.
The show line dog came from titled parents in Schutzhund, so I thought I was getting a "working" dog. I had done some reading and met several breeders, but apparently did not do enough. He is 5 yo, and we have had him since he was a pup. I have trained him to my satisfaction, and at least among the people in my neighborhood, he is considered very well behaved. He was a very good starter dog, and since my old girl is in a lot of pain from arthritis and/or spine problems, we assume that sometime in the next year or so, we will be looking at pups.
I want to do this right, so I am reading more, and have started to visit breeders. Very recently I went to a well regarded breeder of working dogs in the northeast and met her dogs. Her dogs compete regularly and are titled multiple times. She seemed to think I was an appropriate owner for her dogs. I am pretty sure I made my intentions and qualifications known. I am a straight-forward person. We discussed west vs east lines, and since seeing this thread, I thought I would ask this group of knowledgeable people as well.
by Red Sable on 03 September 2009 - 21:09
by phoebe on 03 September 2009 - 21:09
I understand these comments and am not at all resentful. You don't know me. There are too many people who get a GSD and then find them too much dog, and end up mistreating them or getting rid of them. There is a dog like that in my neighborhood, an imported working dog who gets very little exercise and no "work" of any kind. He is clearly very frustrated. The owners have bitten off far more then they can chew. I have another friend with an east german working dog that he trains in an informal way to build drive every day; his dog is aloof, but perfectly safe with me. Our older dog was too much dog for us, but we learned how to handle her, and kept her safe for many years. We learned that we loved the breed, and that included the protective nature. She went for walks with our young children in the woods, and we knew they were safe. They are still completely devoted to her. She sat in the yard and scanned the tree line for intruders for hours at a time. She played with the kids for hours, and was a very happy dog. But visitors were a problem. Our younger dog is far easier to handle, but his structure and allergies have caused him physical pain and me mental pain, so I want a healthy dog next time. There is no comparison between him and the old dog when she was 5. She was very active, agile, healthy, he has hip problems that may require major surgery. Working dogs are physically healthy and mentally stable dogs, but some are especially intended for intense work, and these dogs are not good for me, or me for them. I am just trying to make a sound choice.
by Prager on 03 September 2009 - 22:09
Understand the history of Czech (and little of DDR) GSD.
Civilian aspect.
During communist era in Czech the military was always preparing for war. They have never said if we have war, but when we have war. In case of war mobilization many things would be confiscated. Cars bicycles, .......dogs. In order for the dog to be useful for military and police it had to be trained. Thus there was a taxing program. Tax it you get less of it don't tax it you will get more of it. (Still works:)). Thus if your dog was not trained you would pay about $1000 per year tax for it. If the dog was trained you would pay $5 tax. There were many ZVV clubs and every other small village had a training field right next to a soccer field. ZVV stands for Zakladni Vseobecny Vycvik. General basic exercises. This policy forced people to breed for tens of generations quality dogs for work. Since it is a small country and everybody knows who has good dogs, quality grew.
Border patrol aspect.
Czech border patrol had their own breeding program z Pohranicni straze, which was supplemented by civilian stock . More modern breeding program was started by Karel Hartl and later by Jiri Novotny. There were attempts to cross breed Carpathian wolf x GSD. That attempt was scraped for inconsistency of the breed. Then new blood was introduced by outcrassing into DDR lines. These dogs were hardy, tough, strong dogs for catching people crossing the border by trying to escape communist regime.
Current situation.
DDR and Czech military programs were scraped after communism died since people hated these dogs as a symbol of oppression. DDR military dogs were sold in batches of usually 5 dogs for few hundreds for batch to anybody. That was the end of that program. Similar situation happened in Czech. I have visited one of z Pohranicni straze breeding stations which was set up for hundreds of dogs. But there were 2 litters and about 15 adults.
http://www.alpinek9.com/tours2.html
However Czech lines were luckier then DDR lines. In early 80ties I have imported first z Pohranicni straze GSD and with some help got them registrable with AKC. That started popularity of Czech GSDs in USA and in the world. That was before the end of communism. I have personally smuggled several of these dogs in trunks of cars out of Czechoslovakia. After communism died people in Czech wanted to breed and have W German dogs. But the popularity of the old style Czech dogs all over the world saved them from destruction because I and Jiri Novotny were perpetuating these dogs now privately with the genetically same dogs and also in the spirit of these dogs. There is a argument against people who are against breeding for money. If there would not be people in USA and all over the world voting for these dogs with their dollar then they would be no more.
Prager (Hans)
http://www.alpinek9.com
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