Do not play ball with your dog. - Page 5

ust because a dog chases a ball at home for mommy or daddy but wont chase a rag at the club does not prove the fact that the two are not related. It only proves the lack of drive.

Well I would call this, an envirnmental issue or a lack of courage issue. Not drive. If a dog has drive, they have it all the time. I have seen many a dog that is a complete nerve bag and scared of everything. Break out the ball and it all goes away.They have enough prey drive to overcome the environemtal or stability issues.  So what you are describing are two completely different issues.  If you are using a flirt pole with a young dog, that is very little stress on a dog, which if it has drive should be easily overcome, so would not be an issue related to "lack of drive" with your experience, i am sure you just mis-spoke.



Maybe you have somke video to share depicting your outstanding helper work?

Held--

There is a differnece between high drive and high over-all energy. You are right you can train your dog to behave, but I choose not to inhibit my dogs like that. I want my dogs crazy and i like my dogs crazy. This is just my preference. Like I said, I don't have a need to have my dogs in the house or "snuggle" with them. We work hard and play hard. Just the way I like my dogs.

This is a prime example of why I don't post much anymore.

Aw gosh, don't be all whining then, GARD, for such an anti-snuggly type of guy. Or rather, snuggles and sofas are for the old folks? You have your goals and POV: you said it, you live it. Still it doesn't mean we all will be willing to follow you...and if we don't you won't be posting? That can't be what you mean. Or is it? Oops, oh well, there goes another one.

(For the record, I think your posts do have merit.)

posted by gard

"Well I would call this, an envirnmental issue or a lack of courage issue. Not drive. If a dog has drive, they have it all the time. I have seen many a dog that is a complete nerve bag and scared of everything. Break out the ball and it all goes away.They have enough prey drive to overcome the environemtal or stability issues".

You confuse me gard.  You say in one statement that ball drive and prey drive are different.   Then you make this statement that when you bring a ball out for a nerve bag that it has enough prey drive to overcome the environmental issues.   Sounds like you are saying that the dog is getting some kind of prey stimulation from the ball to overcome its nerves....which cant be true because you say the two are not related.

Lighten up dude.....was just wondering what your reasoning was behind your theory......I dont hang out on boards all day...to busy training dogs.....so I have no clue as to what you posted about drives earlier.

Video of me doing helper work???  For what.....you are the master helper if I could watch you....maybe I could learn something......so if you could post some I would apprecitate it. 

I have posted a bunch

Never said i was a master decoy

My mistake on the prey drive, I ment ball drive guess i should proof read before I hit post.

It has to be tiresome for the oldtimers of this board to rehash the same topics over and over again for the newbies. I know you've been more than willing to share your experiences from the very beginning when I first found this board, GARD. That is why the new search function should help to find all those great postings.

Liasten you are confesed,i said my dog will kill you for any toy don you see any inhibition there.i do not inhibit my dogs in any way whatsoever.ansd as far as not snugglining your dogs,i know that you are one of those people who only bring out there dogs of the kennel to do training and that is it,you are also the type who thinks dog can not work if they are not kept in kennels.i know your kind isee them all over the place and you could not be more wrong even if you tried.see any talented handler can teach a dog any manners he wants witho out beating the dog,you be amazes how much dogs can learn. i would explain but afraid you will miss my hole point.you have a lot to learn about dogs and iknow that because of this one point we are discussing here.it gave me enough insight ,as to how you approch dog training. it is very old thinking.there are new way of thinking these days.have a nice one.

I like the way you think Held.  How can a dog protect its family if it is in a kennel?  Is that really a working dog, or a dog used for sport?  JMO.

Red Sable that is an excellent point you make.a dog in the kennel only means a kennel dog and that is allliving in a kennel has no bearing on how good of a working dog it is.there are some people who keep their low drive dogs in the kennel,hoping their drive will go highr and for some dogs it works,but the only dogs this works for are dogs who really do not like living alone.if you apply this method on a dog who is very clear and strong nerve dog would not give any shit about it.so it is just a kennel dog no more no less.have a nice one.

I skipped half of this thread, because I want to put my two cents in on this one.  I read Koehler, too, back in the nineties, when I found his book in the library.  I though he was a bit hard.  I appreciated that he didn't bribe dogs into behaving, but he was way too harsh in too many ways, and I didn't like his approach.

By the same token, playing ball whenever the dog demands it isn't great either.  If that is what you always do first, then the dog will always be in your face from the moment you step out of the house.  It's like giving a kid candy before breakfast every day.  Nothing wrong with a reward, but something needs to be required before the reward. 

Play ball as much as you want, but use it as a reward.  Play is good for the dog, and for the owner.  That's my experience.

Crys

Now, I'll go back up and read the other two dozen who've already said exactly what I just did.:-)