banana backed & anteater faced? - Page 5

When talking about German S/L, banana back and roach mean exactly the same thing. I have never seen a German dog with a "saggy" back.

It's a new one on me because you can turn the banana over and apply it to American show lines, who almost all have the saggy back. I hadn't thought of that, but I like the term.

Nancy, I think you stepped on some toes with your "Westminster" comment. There is absolutely no other reason for the response you got from someone who claims not to be a moderator. 

Also, before you get engaged in a never ending debate with july, ask her to post her list of accomplishments in the GSD world. Or just do a search on her past comments.

Rik

Well, Rik the thread really has nowhere to go. IT is same old same old.

Sitas Mom, I applaud you for taking your dog; I would like to do that just to give more exposure to other "types" of GSDs but showling costs time and money.  I did some events at the kennel club and got nasty looks by the GSD crowd and positive comments by people with other breeds. I was there only for obedience training and not to talk about dogs.

June009, the Champions on your page [the only working titles are see are ONE BH, CDX - not exactly a proper breed test-unless the dogs are tested against objective criteria how can you state they are proper specimens?] exempify the American type; I thought from recent Westminster shows that the trend was swinging back more towards the German show type but..........these very much have the American angulation I am used to seeing.    Your dogs, however, appear to me to be very straight in the shoulder which surprises me.  I thought the front angulation was supposed to be in synch with the rear.

I think most workingline owners would agree that workinglines as a group are more prone to straight shoulders and long backs.  I agree, the good breeders work to correct those faults while retaining the working characteristics of the dog. I also agree that some working dogs are strictly bred for extreme drive at the expense of good temperment. But there are a lot of real nice ones out there and those are dogs that are actually..........eh..........working.

I'm curious - does anyone have a photo of what might be an "anteater faced" GSD? 

 You have missed my point Nancy..I was only stating what you have said on ulgly WL..

I didn't say that WL we're ugly..I like working lines also (altought I don't own any at this point).  Altought you have attacked my dogs I am not going to comment on your dog also..I almost never comment on other peoples dogs..if you love your dog..I don't care what line he comes from..I always say beauty is in the eyes of the beholder..

Yes I have own in the past some dogs that had a staighter front..nobody is perfect!! But it's been a while.  The ones I have right now couldn't be better in the front..in fact it's something I don't want to loose when breeding..it is very hard to obtain..and i have it

You have the right to dislike Am GSD..it is your choice and I won't argue on that..

you added this tought : 

If the stack is so natural, how come the Amlines folks, per another thread have to start them as puppies to keep the ligaments stretched out to achieve that pose?  How come I never see dogs naturally standing in the extreme positions of some of these poses with their testicles almost dragging the ground?  

What the hell are you talking about stretching the ligament???  LOL!!!We stack them as puppies cause we want them to know how to stand and stay in that position while someone is looking all over their body..their mouth..their testicules etc..not to stech ligament..this is hilarious!!

If you have never seen dogs standing naturally come at my place..I will show you a couple ( about 6)  that I don't even have to touch and they stack!!   IT IS A NATURAL POSE..STACKING IS SUPPOSE TO BE NATURAL..

Yes some stack them too extreme..and it looks awful..

Stacking is not about lines..it is about your dog and the way he is built..not all dogs should be stack the same way because they don't have all perfect front and perfect rear and angles..

But the free stack tells us a lot about the dog..poor feet and front (eat-west-loaded in front-) , poor backs and poor angulation in the rear..

A DOG THAT CANNOT STACK NATURALLY IS LACKING ANGLES..that the way I see it..

By the way I don't think Westminster is the top of the cream..Not at all..I didn't like any of them..

Rik 

I believe an anteater face is along the lines of a collie's face.

July9000

I was responding to your rather presumptive and condescending statement that I knew nothing about dog shows or conformation and probably never owned a dog with correct angles.

I have never pretended to be a dog show person but that does not make me ignorant. As a matter of fact, I have a friend who has shown for decades and is a professional dog trainer. [and, yes, is very upset to what they have seen happening to our breed] . I also have a coworker who teaches a show preparation class. You yourself even admitted some of the stacks are extreme and if you had read my post in context would have understood that my reference to strange structural appearances could, in part, be explained by unnatural stacks. If they were natural, there would not be as much handsetting as their is. 

Actually, I do not think the German showlines are allowed to handset, but you see the pictures everyday of dogs that appear to be almost sitting with their legs at very streteched angles instead of standing naturally. I  Your dogs appear to be stacked properly for their physique; I said nothing about how YOU stack your dogs other than in reference to the statement about proper angles.

In terms of insulting your dogs............I was trying to make a point that, while I acknowledge my dog is not what I would consider SG material, CERTAINLY not V, he is structurally sound,has adequate structure for real work and, therefore has more "correct" angles than some dog bred to an American interpretation of the standard. 

Proper angles have all to do about having a working structure. If you loose sight of the origens of the breed, then you loose sight of the intent of the standard and take it to an artistic interpretation. As I recall, these arguments ocurred in "the day". There is no explanation other than "floating side gait" for the structure of the Amlines.  The folks argue it is about some fantasy about herding dogs trotting all day in an efficient mannter, yet the HGH dogs are not anywhere near that extreme.  

Also, I am not sure why you feel you must bold your replies.  Bold and CAPs are hard on the eyes and not really intended for large blocks of text.

 Nancy..I always bold my replies..like some put huge letters or whatever they do..It was not to yell a point..sorry if you felt attack by my boldness!!

Sorry for my comments about you never owning a dog with good angles..It was not very kind of me but the more I was looking at the post I was getting a little pissed of about the comments on show dogs (as usual!) How can I know if you have knowledge about showdogs..I don't even know you personally so this was out of place..sorry again..

I see every weeks comments about showline and show dogs that are disgusting coming from people who don't even attend shows!! But hey..they know it all tought LOL  It makes me laugh.

I always say we should have good discussion and try to learn about others knowledge.  Some here can post very good comments about what they do and their experiences.  We are from every where and the reality of the GSD is not the same depending on where you live.. We have to find a way to talk to each others..we won't have a choice with the globalisation..soon people will import semen from everywhere so every line will touched by this.  

Will it bring the GSD more in the middle..What will the GSD ressemble in 20 years??  What will be the challenges with all of the mixing of different lines? Will they be two different varieties of GSD?

I think we are at the crossing of a road..we're will we go?

IMO I think it is very important to keep strong workinlines and it is trus that if you want them very agile they need a staighter front and less angulations..but I think also tha it is very important to keep showline to make the more all round GSD for SAR-guide dogs-detection-herding-guard or protection etc.they are more suited because they have less drive and are easy to train.

For me it is important to breed for temperament-health-good structure and good willing to work.  But you have to know what king of work you want your dog to be excellent in and go breed for those caracteristics you want.  If you need a herding dog..you don't want to much agressiveness just enough..If you want a dog for detection..you need not just a good nose..but a dog that naturally uses it..etc..

Ok..enough..it is beginning tolook like I don't have a life LOL!! I'll finish that another time..

 Yes you are right for SAR..I agree Altought i'm not implicated in it I have seen a lot of WL in it..