Breeding or training, Nerves or drives? - Page 5

So, if a dog's only reason for performing the work you want it to perform is just for the reward, does that mean that given a brief introductory period, an average handler could make the dog do the work as long he's the one holding the tug? I mean isn't this part of the thought process when someone sends their dog off for a period of time to be trained by someone else? That the dog will perform for the original owner once that person learns how to reward the dog? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying every dog. But most of the dogs I've seen with really high prey drive will pretty much work for whoever is doling out the reward.

Hello Gustov, GARD and Jeff,

I saw too much stuff on here to avoid this one.  Chris, you said   Really,..............can you name ONE dog in the U.S. or EU. that does not have a sport dog in the first two or three generations.  Two points I would like to make.  First, I do know of such dogs, though not real common.  Second, this is in no way a fair analysis of what has been discussed.  Of cource police dogs are coming from sport dogs in pedigrees because these are the only people breeding any type of working dog.  How many breeders do you know that are breeding good candidates for police work that do not have titled dogs? They are the only ones to choose from.You can use statistics any way you want to support an argument, however their is a hole in this one that you can drive a truck through.
You mentioned that you have been around working dogs all 42 years of your life.  Does that mean you started working with them when you were a day old? 

I am making a point here.  I am not trying to start another stupid war on here, but if you are going to f___k with the bull, then expect to get the horns.  I too remember when these fine animals were not over the top prey .  This is something that has happened in recent years and it is all about sport IMO.  When one starts breeding for excessive prey, other qualities are bound to suffer.  IMO Germany and most of the rest of the free world is more interested in flashy, then solid, or has been mentioned, easier to train.  We, (most of the world today) has a different focus for our dogs than it had in the 50's and 60's.  I had my first GSD in the early 50's and my neighbor had one and the people on the other side of him had two Dobies, not to mention a Boxer and a Collie in our neighborhood.  These were different dogs then.  Period. Different dogs in seriousness, aloofness, and courage.  High prey drive does and can mask a multitude of faults.  We live in a different world today and our dogs are a reflection of what is important to people. (notice I said people, not me)  Everyone around me simply cannot understand why in the world I like my dog tha is a true working dog.  He is half Czech and half ddr.  He is serious.  My neighbors all think I should own a Golden Retreiver to sit on the couch with me and greet all passerbys.

GARD likes high off the chart prey, crazy prey.  That is his likes, just not mine.
Jeff, I had a Kirschental girl years ago that was nuts to please.  She lived for my approval.  I never rewarded with treats or toys, at least in the early training.  I wanted the dogs to bond to me, not the food in my pocket.   Before we went crazy with the flashy ob and flying bites, praise and pats was a good reward.  Times have changed.

Great post Terry! Seeing I have only been around 33 yrs, I sometimes wonder what do I know? Even in such a short time, the dogs were different when I was a kid. Glad that others can back that up.

Ever wonder how many prey monsters it takes to find a winner? The people I know are still counting and looking. Still they want to deny what is right in front of them and piss on the correct dog, say it doesn't have enough drive, isn't flashy enough, fast enough, stupid enough to be bribed by treats.  If it's getting the job done and well, it is correct and has enough drive in my book.

….this is in no way a fair analysis of what has been discussed.

Monark has a few sport dogs in the first three generations.

BTW, I find it great the Sweden has dogs that are twelve years old that are still working on the streets.

"If things are so bad why are there more dogs in service than ever before?"

The population is larger, so why would we not have more dogs? More departments are seeing the bennefits of having a K-9 on the force and still others, finally have the funding for dogs.

hey Christopher Smith and Nate you guys have summed it up well.the rest is just noise.thanks and have a nice one.and nate like your Brawnson son.i have one and i love him.