Showlines + Wkg lines- Done more and done well - Page 5

Here is my suggestion for a breeder who has been successfully mixing show and working lines for decades - vom gelben Rühl    and my personal favorite of his dogs Enschi http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/78654.html  . Please note she was V rated. Perhaps some one could post her picture for me. If I read his website right way back when I first stumbled across his dogs his goal is a V on both ends and he has done well with quite a few dogs. Most of his breeding stock has been V rated with Sch 3 and IPO 3 and often FH or FH2 and KKl1a. Unfortunately not all the conformation ratings are reflected on this site.

BTW Shelley he started out with dogs from Blue Scipio and Ziggo Bungalow and line bred on those and even today tries to find distant linebreedings back to those lines. I find it fascinating the dance he has done over the decades with his breedings. He linebreeds on show or working but with dogs that have a line to the other side. Then he will take that linebred dog out to the opposite. So a linebred working w/ at least one showline gets bred back out to a show line and vice versa. So many of his dogs are not simply naked show/work outcrosses but a carefully balance mix of both. Some more one way than others but then they are brought back into the "fold". Here is  a pedigree that gives you quick links back to a number of his dogs http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/460839.html . Please notice the sire line of 3 generations with V on both ends.  BRAVO!

It is apparent that he has had a number of breeding partners along the way to accomplish this since he seems to only keep 2 bitches at a time. There are more of his stock listed on the gsddata.com site than on the PDB .  From his website " The universal idea (performance and anatomy) has always been put into practice here"  and "

Wow, Chris...feel free to send one of those puppies my way if you want a nice working home!

And My own personal done right cross that I was lucky enough to get - Remy Sch2 (hopefully 3 in the spring) and service dog  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/485683.html She has two brothers that are police dogs. One here in the states and one in Holland.  She may look more like her Dad's side but she hit's like a train and is serious about it.

I wasn't indicating by my info that I would be breeding un hip certified and untitled dogs. Both of my dogs mentioned in my earlier posting are juveniles currently. No serious breeding plans, but I have the potential to produce a nice show/working combo with quality worthwhile individuals if I choose to do such in the future. But that's the future, and good breeding often is done with planning, not just spur of the moment.
And no, nothing is guaranteed, even in a 'world-class' breeding involving VA-rated SchH titled parents. You try with the sincerest of intentions to breed quality but nothing is guaranteed in stone-breeding has never been a perfected science, nor will it be. The rest is in the proper upraising, training, titling, then careful planned breeding for a hopeful next generation, and then repeat the process.

Wasn't there a connection between Gelben Ruel and Haus Anja a long time ago? Memory fails regrading specifics but I remember Blue Scipio's US owner telling me something like that when he was talking about his female, Delphi Haus Anja's, and her mother's history of both being in the BSPS the same year or something. I can't find any record of Delphi for some reason. She was an awesome female. I loved Blue. What a dog!

SS

Found Delphi this time. 265 pts. in the '88 WUSV. Pulled in at '88 UScA Nationals, "Handler Ill." I was there. If memory serves her handler was not exactly "ill", but I think he may have hurt his fist on somebody who desparatly deserved some curb-side justice out in front of the host hotel. Things were different in the old days. LOL

SS

I think someone was recently looking for the link to one of these litterbrothers. Black and tan "half" breeds. Pretty nice looking if you ask me. Can someone post their pictures?

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/420861.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/448236.html   Note that one of the comments about this dog states he died in 2007 at age 3. Does anyone know if this is true and if so what he died of? This website makes no mention of it http://zwinger.narod.ru/gal/tarak_bergischen_tal.htm  nor do several others.

Sibersee,

Is there any video showing Arko vom Butjenter Land SchH3 KKL1a bite work? Since you volunteered this breeding, I'm curious to see the working ability of the stud.

All other listers,

My next statement is just my opinion and not directed at anyone  personally. I think when you do a breeding like this, most working and show people will look at them as orphans (for lack of a better term).  Most of the show dogs that I have seen would get chased at a club trial. What Schutzhund USA allows to happen at the Seiger show is a joke. How one organization can have two very different protection standards is beyond me. One breed one test period. At the Seiger show, the working dog is graded using the same conformation standard.

Anthony Irving

I love the idea of working and show. I am thinking this will be build a bettter GSD, temperment and structure and health of the dog will improve..

Hm. I get more compliments on my dogs than I do critiques.
I personally do more AKC obedience than anything, too. But I also occassionally catch a German show.
People are entitled to their opinion, Aero, whether it be right/wrong. And I am entitled to mine. I see no reason to "sell" my beauty pictured above here just because some political people look down their nose at her. It doesn't diminish her quality, workability, value in future breeding, nothing. It's just opinions. I will not be the slightest bit afraid to have her trialed.
However, I do also see and understand that most fanciers approve of a breeding of one style or another(full show line or full working line)-its just personal preference based upon what type of show/trialing an individual wants to do, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you wanna do SchH, get a high-end working dog. If you wanna aim high at NASS, then you get a high end show dog.
But, I have to be totally honest-I can see reason for such people to turn slightly jealous to see a show/working combo who can not only outwork the average full show line, but look GOOD while doing it in general conformation. Sometimes you've gotta be willing to think 'outside' of the box.