Let's discuss this pedigree - Page 5

I'm a newbie...but way too much inbreeding/linebreeding for me....and I'm a Southerner....lol

I know a lady with a beautiful palomino horse.  Sweetest disposition, anybody can ride him and he's nice to look at.  It's really a horse worth having.

I bring this up because the horses sire and dam are half brother and sister.  The lady said she didn't realize this before she bought the horse, and if she had noticied, she wouldn't have bought him.  I thought it sure would have been a shame to judge the horse more strongly on his inbred / linebred pedigree than his awesome temperment.  Truly that's all any of us want- the temperment and looks we each personally like.

GARD- I'm glad you finally found the dog you've been looking for, and didn't let a societal taboo make your decision.

IMO .....Too much inbreeding!

I have to preface this with it was taken after about 10 minutes of frisbee (If I ever learn how to throw one she'll be pretty good at that too) She comes in so fast and hard, I have to tire her out until I  build her grip more. that is also a tactic for me not getting bit :)

You may notice that I never square my body to her cuz if she doesn't bite me, she nut checks me and like any guy I don't like getting kicked in the balls  I'm gonna take care of that but we are just getting know each other.

Don't laugh at my skills i am rusty and never had a dog this fast before. Watch how quick she was when I had the white frisbee

This is 100% genetics. She has had 4 or 5 formal bite sessiosn and ths is the 3rd time we have played tug together.

Well here she is............i had a second video that dissappeared into YouTube upload land.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4dV3s-Ss6Y

My cuz worked the camera and that's Pop's in the background complaining because we are playng with the dog instead of coming in for dinner. That is my new yellow dog hauler in the background

Ok here is the other one...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNPzEyNiCFQ

One head, four legs, one tail.      Very nice.  You're going to have to work on your speed!  She's a rocket already. 

Thanks Tina

What I was looking for in terms of the pedigree is the fact that yes my dog is tightly bred, but did anyone notice that the two lines do not come together until the 5 gen? Then only through two dogs Othar and G'vitou. Then it doesn't come any closer to that going out to 7 generations. In my opinion once you get past the 5th Generation it is an outcross. So esentially yes this is a tight breeding but a tight breeding of two almost completly different lines.

Some may not find that significant, but I did.

On top of that if you look at the dog Mango (which she is 5,5 on) I know that pedigree isn't correct, so that leaves out even more of the G'Vitou influence/ line breeding in the 7th pedigree. I don't know what that dogs pedigree is, but I am guessing it is old NVBK stuff that is totally different from the Duex Pottios or Boscaille lines or they cross way way back. Then I know there is a dog in Kali's pedigree that didn't even exist. He wouldn't tell me which one, probably because there is a litter from her on the ground right now from another breeder. So the Granddam my dog is bred 2-2 on has one dog in the 5th generation who's pedigree is incorrect and one dog somewhere that didn't even exist.

Sue brings up a very good point about Elgos looking very GSDish.

Now you have the dogs from Kukay's Kennel in my dogs pedigree. What do we know about Kukay's? That the breeder was the wife of the breeder of Antwerpa kennels so essentially the same kennel.  Where Elgo's GSD look comes from , I do not know. Supposedly, Kukay's used Elgos several times. I am still on the fence on whether I believe that or not or how much they really used him.

If you really want to trip out. Look at Elgos and Orry vom haus Anterwpa, they look alot a like.  Elgo's paper pedigree is false but his real pedigree is not really in dispute his father is Atos so I don't know where his GSD looks come from. Then look at Arco Turbiere (you have to look at the other entry on the DB for the pic.) He is also very GSDish. So the Kukay (with Antwerpa right next door) kennels (if the paper is correct) used Elgos and Arco, two very GSD looking Mals, many times in their breedings, hmmmmm.........you have to think about that.

I know this is alot to try and follow but the 2 points I am making are:

1) Yes my dog is bred very tight in the first 4 generations but bred on two completely different lines. At least two of the dogs in her granddam's pedigree have either false papers or did not exist. So when you look at it as a whole, How tight is it really?

2) From a GSD standpoint if you look at things objectively. Purely Objective. Toss out the SV doctorine bullshit some have been brainwashed by. Forget what you want and hope to believe. Look at the dogs. Look at the kennels. Where were the kennels geographically? Who owned these kennels? Look at the breeding practices in Belgium and Holland, esp at that point in time.

What do you see? You have to see it.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/belgian_malinois/forum.html

so what, you are the pround owner of a shepinois.  i have heard it said that the dutch and belgian would breed dogs of different races just so long as they would work.  if half the litter looked liked gsd's thats how they would reg. them.  the others mali, thats how they would get registered.

awhile back on the longwoods boards they had a litter of mali pups.  except for the one who looked a whole lot different.  something hiding in the background that just happened to raise its head?

gard, you and i are not the first to think about "crossing the line" when it comes to breeding, er producing, working dogs.  some people want pups that will WORK, and dont get hung up on pedigree, etc.

yea, im a shepherd guy,  but above that i am a working dog guy.    even when the bloodlines come from different  lines to begin with, they end up in the same place.  what does this tell us?

too much too think about now.  have to get up early and train.

john

I see what you are saying, Gard and I like it!  This is the art of tight breeding.   Keep talking because I like learning.