a question - Page 5

So I have a questions for you Senta

When you dog does something wrong what do you do? I.E

Say pulling you down the road after the cat that just ran out?

Or everytime you put the collar on he goes to bite you?

What about  it biting or mouthing your hand?

What if the dog snapped your child in the hand? arm or worse face?

How about your dog chewing apart your sofa?

Or your dog wants to fight with the next doors dog?

Please enlighten us on how you would handle these problems.

I am ready to learn new ways

EK

 Gladly I would like to do that. I hope that I can explain that - I must babelfish use and would like avoid misunderstandings also. Besides it is to be explained not simply in short sentences in foreign language, what constitutes the learning extent of to two years. In particular however on the fact it is based that and the dog is daily repeated on humans rely can.

If the dog bites, if he gets collar - he made a negative experience thereby. If one begins with a puppy with normal collar and positive experiences mediate, the dog will be pleased, if one goes only into the direction, where that is collar. Positive experience is called here: to walk go, play, confidence to develop.

If the dog bites over the hands, it did not learn a normal biting inhibition. He learns the biting inhibition from a socialized mother. The dog mother seizes carefully over the lip.

If a dog did not have a contact to children as a puppy, must it very slowly learn - that children are also humans. Children move differently than adult humans - that can learn and must the dog over positive experiences with children. Children must naturally likewise learn with the dog to communicate correctly.

If a dog chews at the sofa, it has boredom. On the other hand one can do something - or?

If a dog with other dogs wants to fight, this dog is likewise not socialized with dogs. There is instruction for such dogs that they become acquainted with other dogs. Is better that learn for this dog, if it is puppy. Normally the dog learns over the mother and in the first half year in puppy play hours.

Everything takes place slowly and with many repetitions, which are each time positively occupied.

If one individual dog does all these things together, this dog is behavior-disturbed and much time will need for a normal life with humans.

There are a lot good books by amazon (Mc Connell, M. Bekoff, Jane Goodall, Stanley Coren, Jan Fennell and..., and... ) Unfortunately are not translated books of Erik Zimen " the wolf" and "the dog".

Most of this books have a one content: to understand the dogs. A gsd is a dog too - not any more and not less.

young dog is learning, what is a child.

positive experience 

 Um Senta, you only told us why you think a dog would do those things, not HOW you would FIX them. Not only that, but even a purely positive trainer when working with the aggression problems would probably at least use a head collar or muzzle (oooo, TRAINING AIDS). A dog doesn't JUST bite somebody because it was unsocialized, and only love and time will not fix that. There are a LOT of people on this list that have worked with a LOT of aggressive dogs, myself included. Your attitude about it can be very dangerous and harmful to the people who DO love their dog. Again you are saying that someone with an aggressive dog did not raise them correctly and did not socialize them. That is so extremely limited it's not even funny. I by the way have read books by most of the authors you've mentioned. Am familiar with the purely positive's crowd on ways to work with it. It just doesn't work with every dog in every situation, and truthfully, who in their right mind is going to take a dog on a buckle collar with no training aids that is biting children, and introduce them to children? Talk about a safety hazard waiting to happen! If they can't do that, then what is your only other option? Euthanasia? so you're saying that they have 2 options. 1. socialize a biting dog with no aids to children   or 2. ?????????   And if you don't suggest they put the dog to sleep, what other option would you be suggesting in this "love them and provide understanding and all problems will go away" theory? 

Yes I AM familiar with how someone that doesn't use corrections works with an aggressive dog and provides a positive association. But even THEY would use a training aid. Not only that, but what happens when it is ineffective because the breed, bite history, and other extenuating circumstances make it not work, or make it take too long? A biting dog does not have that amount of time. It needs to be fixed as quickly as possible to improve the chances of staying in a home. Whether a person uses corrections (which honestly I truly don't agree that these dogs need only a correction that squelches a behavior problem either, I prefer a more positive approach in this situation, however, we ALL use training aids. And there are times when a correction fixes the problem. 

I can think of a good example. I just got through board and train with the most obnoxious 2 year old golden retriever I have seen in lots of years of training dogs.He was holding the owners hostage in their household. The relationship was totally skewed, the dog was leading the household. The owners loved the dog completely though they equated love with spoiling. Dog had been through clicker classes and knew all his obedience commands...for a treat only, and only if he felt like it. They hadn't walked him in over 6 months because they couldn't control him on a buckle collar and since the trainer at the box store that taught them said it was "cruel" to use anything else, he just didn't get walked. He couldn't ride in the car, too obnoxious. Basically, he was confined to the house, and anybody coming over was instantly mauled with affection. He would jump into your space, put his paws around your waist and mouth all over. Just utterly the most obnoxious dog I've worked with in a LONG time, and I've worked with some. Purely positive methods had been tried and had not worked. What would you do?  I'll tell you what I did.

First I tried grounding the dog, they controlled ALL dogs movement in the house for 2 weeks, changed his food to less sugar, and taught him to walk on a leash, and taught him to walk on a treadmill. That took a WHOLE lot of corrections but we got it in one session, which enabled them to start walking him immediately. Because they saw the success with that, they hired me for another session. We got him in and out of the car, and taught that you do obedience exercises the first time every time and not necessaril

If you've trained more than just one or two dogs you'll know that not all dogs can (or should) be trained the same way.  The withholding love training method may work on some dogs but certainly not all.

That passes now my question at the beginning. I assumed we will speak about NORMAL dogs. To talk about behavior-disturbed dogs - that is completely different topic and to hardly discuss in some sentences. Honestly said - I am also most surprised, as there are many behavior-disturbed dogs obviously. All the examples and questions here…. 

I know really many dogs, a great many dogs and different methods - however under these many dogs particulars, which exhibit such behavior disturbances, are only rare.

That was not the topic. I need for the topic " behavior-disturbed dogs" absolutely no explanation.

*chokes on her tea*

Normal dogs? Did I hear that right... Normal dogs!?! Taking over is a normal behavior for dogs if they aren't shown what the boundaries are. The dog acts to assume that if everyone else in his pack is weak, then he must be the alpha by default, and he'll start acting that part. Big dog, little dog, friendly breed, "aggressive" breed... it doesn't matter. All dogs will do this, given the chance.

And obnoxious and untrained dogs really aren't that rare at all. I've found it's more the exception to the rule to have polite, well-trained dogs. Shasta's got it right, people who think dogs only need kisses and cuddles are setting themselves up for a very dangerous situation.

I see it all the time: aggressive behavior and owners who either laugh it off, or worse coddle the dog saying: "there, there, it's okay. Mr Scary-Thing isn't going to hurt you." The dog responds to the coddling as a positive reward associated for the aggressive behavior, and over time the problem intensifies. Meanwhile the owners can't understand why Fido, who has only been loved and never punished, is acting so dangerously. Then they tell me I'm completely wrong when I tell them they're going to have to start providing structure and rules in Fido's environment. They'd never "be mean" to their dog like that; they "love" Fido.

I see this problem especially with toy-breeds and other small dogs. Little dogs have the same brain as a big dog, but people seem to think they don't need structure and pack rules.

Why does everybody bother arguing with this person? One that has trained and worked dogs would truly understand that this person is completely in their own world. Perhaps the best help that any one could give this person is to take a truly civil and sharp dog to them and let him/her try to work with it.

Or maybe some thorazine, prozac or other combination.

"I see this problem especially with toy-breeds and other small dogs. Little dogs have the same brain as a big dog, but people seem to think they don't need structure and pack rules."

My husband is guilty as charged.  I recently brought home a small Rat Terrier pup who defines the word "terrier".  He is obnoxious, bullheaded and full of piss and vinegar.  He's also very cute.  Therefore my husband cringes and yells at me every time I correct him for destroying a piece of the house.  The majority of the time the GSD's will put up with his shenanigans but when he starts biting, he gets bit back.  Then my husband yells at the big dog and picks up little cute dog. 

I'm having to retrain husband in the way the pack order goes around here.

This all sounds like someone lives in Fairytale Town.

My dog is about 22 months now and my e-collar is in the mail on it's way to me.  I don't have the time to fine tune every detail for maximum points without one. I have 85% motivationaly tained my dog from a pup until now. I use mild corrections after he learns something but doesn't obey. I use harder corrections if he shows aggression or blatently ignores me when I give him a command. Still I have been told I am not hard enough.(usually when he is in drive)

Everybody has their opinions. My dog works well enough at home for a peacefull coexistance but for a trial, his heel is crooked, his downs are a bit too slow, and a few other things can be cleaned up quicker due to the absolute speed and uniformity of corrections with an e-collar. I know allot of people who have difficulty with the downstay for 5 minutes in my sport. Thankfully I don't have that problem... BUT my dog has popped up to a sit (for a better look) a couple times if I get far enough away, (well past the trial test) but I like to mess with my dogs and teach them more than whats needed. I want to start downing my dog in the backyard and going in the house, sitting in my car or whatever. I have allready ran or walked back to my dog countless times to teach the down stay months ago, and now that I am getting farther and farther away, it's rediculous to keep wasting my time to apply a late correction.

My feelings are that a zap from the "E" on the setting I choose, will be less pain than a yank on the pinch, better timed and more effective. So why waste what precious little training time I have? I have no worries about my dog reverting back to old ways or being collar smart. My dog wants to obey me and be correct to ellicit a favorable response from me (he radiates that) We can do everything I have taught him with no collar or leash at all at the park (without correction) other than my voice (with about 90% success). However with a trial coming up I don't want to not be correcting him, every time he does the wrong thing. ( I need 100%) We need to sharpen up and not have double commands or him obeying slowly from now on until he trials, for maximum points and his overall better understanding of what it is I expect.

I will spend better my time with my dogs - around a multiple more useful… and a cup tea to drink perhaps .....

The dog on pictures is the same dog - it NEVER has had e-collar and together with the child no collar.... and the child she has seen last time before 3 month... .