SHOCK SITE - Page 5

Superdog,

I just watched the video from the link you almost presented and I must tell you, I believe whats on the video is real, but its propaganda.  No one in the fur industry skins animals in this way.  The fur is damaged and the skinner risk's injury and desease.  I used to raise Fox and Mink and this is not how it work's.  I would not be sending a donation at this time.

Animals are killed everyday for meat, fur, leather, medicine and research.  This video was made to raise money plain and simple.   I do eat meat and wear animal products (leather etc.)   I hunt and sometimes still trap.   I do not and have never made an animal suffer and it serve's no purpose to argure for or against your views.

The Buffalo makes me sad babyeagle because I know that (The People) starved.

Don't believe everything you see on the internet superdog.

Brent.

Sure fur is mislabelled frequently - those cute little furry dust cathers (err I meant household decorations) are made with real fur etc but hello?! - people are buying them.

People want leather, fur etc to wear.  Designers use leather and fur (was just an in depth expose on high end designers with mixed/mis-labelled furs too).

Being human does not makes us a HUMANE species. 

We are probably the worst animal out there for destruction to ourselves, other animals and the planet.  Yet do we really want to stop and change our entire lifestyle to become truly cruelty free?

Are you willing to become vegan? Giving up the leather sofa, designer duds, brand name cleaning products - go cruelty free for make up - household items etc?

It takes a lot of work and dedication.

I know that I am not that dedication and honestly there are truly very few who are willing to do that. 

Unless there is a dramatic change in our society - the market for these products will still be there.  If there is a market there will be animals killed for fashion or couches etc

It is a fact.  Is it right? No but it is the society we created.  We value the almighty dollar more than an animal's life BUT when faced with gory photos of our choices - plead out rage.

Do I know that the animals were skinned alive? No. Would I be surprised if it ever happened? No.

I am involved in the horse, dog, cat and rabbit communities on a rescue basis.  I also live in a community that is rich in fox farming. 

I see the best and worst of people in these communities of animal lovers.  Ever been to a gaited horse show? Talk about your "jeckyl/hyde show" there!

 I'm forty and i am a born vegetarian coming from 2 carnivores parents.

Even young I couldn't stand any cruelty or violence and I didn't want to eat  meat WHY I just don't know..So is it hard not to eat cadavre?? NO, I think it is natural for human to be vegetarians...Of course Economy won't tell you that.  But I think that if we would all become vegetarians we would be much kinder and compassionate and in a much secure planet.

A lot of societies have been filled with so much violence to the point people think it is normal.  WELL IT IS NOT!!

And even if it is cultural..DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT.

To all of you my friends who are carnivores..just try to buy your meat from peole who treats their animals right.  

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.

ok

july9000 - being a vegetarian is not easy and I applaud you for it.  I don't eat a lot of meat but I do eat it on occasion.  There are some people (usually you have to go local!) that are wonderful to their farm animals.  The farmer I buy my chicken and beef from has organic certified land.  Every thing the animals eat is organic and they are cared for to the highest of standards.  He brushes his cows daily!

He does kill them.  He does it in the most humane way possible.  It is still not pretty and it is still not nice.  I don't like to think about it but alas ... his chickens and cows taste really good. 

I know that they enjoyed their life on his farm.  They were outside in the sun, free range.  They had the best of care.

It lessesn the guilt factor for me.

I know that most people are not as dedicated as you though.  I know that I am not yet.

My main concern though is not meat for food but more so the animal testing, animals for fashion etc.  That to me is completely senseless.

I understand the need for testing on animals for medical advancements but even these sometimes cross the line.

Animal testing and loose laws surrounding it as well as the large companies that get away with so many atrocities because of their political power - makes me aware of the scope of the situation.

Brand name cleaning, pharmacutical and some foods are created by some heavy hitting - well known pro animal testing companies that spend billions of dollars annually to make themselves look pro-animal rights. 

These are household names that most people don't even realize as they are owned by parent companies who fall under the umbrella of company X, company Y or company Z. 

The only way to become completely cruelty free to research every company you deal with from your bank to your local grocer and see who deals with who etc.  You would be surprised as to the limited number of suppliers and products you would be left with.  I don't know how some people do it.  It is awe inspiring - I wish I would be able to do it but alas I like comet, clorox and Johnson and Johnson products.

You will never rid the world of cruelty, as nature itself is cruel.    Cruelty is a man made word expressing emotion.

Most of mans cruelty is unessecary and man could change that.   But nature will always have a heavy hand and needs to be respected and understood.    This same sort of topic went around not that long ago, lest we forget.

Eat what you will, it has nothing to do with what kind of human you will be or what kind of world we live in.

Man didn't need meat to be violent, compassion and a more secure world?

That makes no sense.

Everyone has choice's, thats good.   Maybe they will not be the hard choice's.

Kudos on the last post Two Moons ... was what I was aiming for but lacked the vocabularly to express.  :)

I guess my theory is being human does not makes us a HUMANE species. 

We don't live in a lollipop and gumdrop world where there is no pain, suffering or death.  Even if humans were not on this planet there would be death, pain and suffering.

We can make choices to limit our impact on those things but few of us choose to go to the extremes as others do.  It doesn't mean we are evil by any means .... we are following the norm.

My good friend is an example - house is one of those green homes - everthing renewable, solar/wind/sunterrain heated home - wears only cotton.  All personal and home care products are holistic cruelty free brands.  Grows own veggies - is a vegan ... no leather ....  recycles anything possible - you think of a do-good thing that could be done ... it is being done there.

Very good choices.  Very wonderful person.  Could I do it? Nope ... just don't have the time or energy to second guess every single thing I go to buy. 

Even then, one person doing that doesn't make a difference on the whole - as the majority of people still go the convenience route. 

If there is a market for a product it will be purchased. If there is a way to cut corners and do it less humanely but make more money - it will be done.  That is the way the world works.  It is not nice but it is the truth.

You are right...man is cruel  In fact it is the only animal giving suffering to another just for fun!! There is no cruelty for me in the wild cause it is not done for fun but for survival..And yes the problem is a lot of people on this planet are just in a surviving mode.  And 1/3 are just looking a them dying while they're eating their 3rd bigmac!!

But there is a word that really gives me hope...EVOLUTION..And humane needs to evolve..

I might not be there when it happens but it will...Man is fudamentally good in his heart..i'm sure about that.

And it is not difficult for me to be a vegetarian..I have the chance of disliking meat since I was young..40 years ago everybody tought i was sick!! But it's the only disadvantage of being vegetarian...you live forever ..

jodagirl- being racist is not something one should be proud of...they probably wouldn't think much to you either

i haven't looked at the sites as i think i have a rough idea what the content is...but every culture has a history of animal torture god look at the uk we used to chase foxes with packs of dogs dig up their babies and watch them torn to pieces ... sick. but how can you make judgement on a nation just because you don't like what they do...the answer is YOU CANT

Hun practice what you preach...become a buddhist .  

Tigermouse,

I was going to stay out of this but you prompted me to write again.......

I just LOVE it when people don't read all that was written before they start commenting. Go back to my last two or three posts and read them before you start telling me to adopt some Eastern religion. You might notice that I have agreed to make concessions and not lump all Asian people into the same catagory as the people who are doing those horrible things. Didn't bother to read the whole thread now did we?

Also, another thing I just LOVE is when people bring up atrocities committed in the past that have been abandoned for humane reasons, to argue a point. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't fox hunting (the old barbaric way) banned in the U.K.? That means someone (or several someones) decided that is was CRUEL and BARBARIC and therefore, WRONG!!!!! AND.....they stopped doing it. Helloooooo, those people who are on the site about which this whole thread was started, are torturing animals every day. They have not changed their horrible ways and most likely don't plan to either. Not any time soon anyway.

Now for everyone else; would you like to know what it was that opened my eyes to my closed mind? It was a statement that ocoey made :

"please, for the sake of our breed, be careful who you paint with that brush. Blaming an entire race for the deeds of few is exactly the thinking that brings us breed specific legislation."

It was that statement that was a slap in the face. I began thinking about the similarities between the mindset of those who support BSL and my (gulp) racist attitude toward Asian cultures and the negative effects of both. Also, how can I have so much compassion for the Jews who endured the holocaust and feel they way I did about Asian people. I can't, it's hypocritical. So, thanks to the good people on the PDB, I have had a change of heart (and mind).

For those of you who engaged in the discussion and brought intelligent, thought provoking arguments to the thread, thank-you. I enjoyed the volleys. I love a good, stimulating argument and will gladly admit when I am wrong. So? Who knows a good recipe for crow?