Is this Normal for a Schutzhund Club - Page 5

Hey Steve1,i like the way u think well said.also i do hear and read from time to time people mentioning about european selling Americans shitty dogs,first of all i do not like the term shit to describe a dog,no dog is shitty,just different dogs have different strength to do different jobs especially the germanshepherd that is why this breed is so populer around the world.just like different people have different strengths and weakness not every one is cut out to be great handler or trainer does not matter how good of a dog u have.Anyways,if europeans are selling not so good dogs it is because americans are buying them no one is putting gun to their heads so u can not blame other people for your own stupidity.thanx.

Steve1

It usually doesn't take me a "year or two" to realize that a dog is a shitter.  Usually a person that is good enough at reading a dog can tel right away if a dog is a shitter or needs time to mature.  Only an inept, shitty trainer takes one to two years to realize that he is feeding a shitter. 

See Steve, I have a different outlook than you.  If I am looking for a working dog and I know what I like, why would I keep a dog that doesn't fit that description?  If I'm looking for a concrete finisher, I don't hire a drywaller.  I have a house dog at home that can flatuate, scratch himself, play with the kids or whatever he chooses.  Even if I wanted a sport/companion dog, i still wouldn't want a shitter.   Why would I want to put in 4x the work?    The sport already requires a huge amount of time and dedication.  Why add to it?  Maybe it is intelligence, but I wouldn't go to war with a revolver, I wouldn't chop down a forest with a hand saw, and I wouldn't waste my time doing Schutzhund with a Golden Retriever. 

I have seen countless people struggle for 8 years to barely get a Sch3 on a dog that was not up to par.  I've also seen excellent trainers take a mediocre dog and do the most with them.  I never said the OP's dog was a shitter, just merely pointed out that some dogs are not cut out for the sport.  Some aren't cut out for Police, or pets for that matter. 

Mr Corleone

Then i guess you are the worlds greatest Trainer of Schutzund competiton or working  Dogs

I did say you thought the best was in the USA, of course not in the UK where i was born or in Belgium  where i now reside, and which you will probably know is a very small country could i expect fit in one city of the USA, but  would not  be up to your standard i guess with working Dogs or Trainers

Steve 1

Hey Pat

You may want to check out a couple of clubs or private trainers etc.

Different people have different things to offer opinions etc. and you will often feel ike you fit in with others better at some clubs than others

Yes not all dogs are cut out for sport, but if its your first dog it may be a good dog to learn with. Sometimes the biggest obstacle to learning is not knowing what question to ask.   If your dog is not dog aggressive or does not have any temperment issues and you enjoy working with him.  enjoy it.   You won't loose any birthdays and it probaly won't affect your parents credit rating if you fail a trial  

Yvette made a good point about checking out multiple clubs etc.

I personally will train with a few different clubs myself.. diffrent freinds in sport have helped me differnt ways.

Also remeber every person has an opinion.. not all are worth listening to

Jeff

I have a 19 mo. old dog in for training to title right now who showed us nothing useful in protection for well over a month! Yesterday, just about the time I was trying to come up with a gentle way to tell her owner she would be coming home soon, she had an epiphany. I'm not worried about her getting her SchH 1 today.

I have had dogs who didn't focus in proetection (or anything else) until they were nearly 3 yrs. old. One turned into the best dog I ever had. I have another one just like him, now 3, showing lots of progress and potential at last. I have no doubt if we had rushed this dog we would have ruined him... I am fortunate to work with trainers/helpers who understand full well that patience pays off sometimes.

SS

Shelley

How true that is. regardless of what some may say like children some Dogs take time and prove to be great Dogs after

I menrtioned the great ZENDER but there were no comments on that

He took time to come to himself and was it worth the wait, Yes, one of the great Dogs of his time and still proving so,

My 'Fred' took time and i defy anyone of the Club members to contradict the next statement ,that he is certainly the best Dog in protection in the club with Dogs his Age and Older, but four  months ago, i would have not said that yet you could see the potential was there, it just did not come out unlil the last few months when he suddenly changed

I have tried to post photos of him working in protection but so far have failed miserably to do so albeit spending several hours trying

Steve

i just wanted to see if i could do it.  this is a pic i had saved on my computer.

go to the image button.  choose the upload tab.  browse your saved pictures

or documents.  choose the one/ones you want to upload....voila!

oh, you do have to decide what size you want them to be so they don't take up

the whole screen.

now let's see your training pics.  :)

pjp

There are dogs that do not have what it takes for Schutzhund over here and over in Europe from the finest breedings,  so that is just plain fact.

You see them for sale over here and over there as well with quotes like family protection, not suitable for sport or will do Police work but bite quality not suitable for Schutzhund, good bite poor tracking,  low ball/food drive but will do good defense work, so this is normal and widespread. I would like to think every puppy produced from my kennel could do the sport but this will not be the case. I saw a ad from the kennel recently discussed the "biggest in North America "who had six weeks old puppies and had a quote saying good family, top Schutzhund sport or police which blows my mind to think every puppy can do it all  and they know this at six weeks, amazing but untrue. The  reality is good if one could do top sport and this would not be known for months perhaps a year or two so again puppies are a gamble no matter what the parents are titled wise. Now of course buying from excellent working lines will improve you percentage of getting something with drives etc possibly suitable for the sport but not itched in stone.

Get a second opinion and work on the basis of a general concensus of what the problems are.

Not to say there are dogs showing little natural potential with a lot of work, building drives and coaching would not be able to skim to a title at a home field  with a lot of work. I appreciate someone else taking a look at dogs I have sorted out to keep for title and often get several trainers opinions including mine before I decide to keep one here.

It is hard enough to title a dog with excellent drives if I had Zidane at eight weeks of age needless to say  with my skills he just might be lucky to get a BH at eight years! LOL!

I  have experienced more than one disapointment as far as the sport prospects went with dogs but I always seem to find something they are good at and more suitable for.

Marlene

My club is still waiting for ME to come around. Ha ha ha    56 years and counting...

SS

I think I agree with Don and he put it quite well.  If you have a certain "expectation"  and know what you like and want out of a dog then I myself would want an honest assessment of what the dog is realistically gonna achieve for me and by a year old if you've already been working the dog consistantly I'd hope a good trainer would be able to tell you if that particular dog is gonna meet up to your expectations in another 6-8 months.  But I'd also get 2 or 3 opinions before I'd take the first one as "gospel".  I wouldn't tell someone sell off the dog because it's not gonna perform to your expectations; but I personally would make a decission that perhaps he/she should just be the "house dog" and try out another in hopes to get what you're looking for.  If you can't keep 2 dogs then I guess it's a personal decission you have to make, either sell and buy another, OR keep pluggin away at what you have but with realistic expecations.  Some folks have the patience to be up for a challenge.  I myself get frustrated and overwhelmed easily and to plug away at something I have been told and know is never gonna be what I want in the end will only make me feel like I'm spinning my wheels not getting anywhere.