...price of a working dog, got me thinking - Page 5

held that is very true.  but how do you know that pup w. get mouthy during the stick hits, or he have enough drive to be just as drivey when you get to the dumbbells when its 85 degrees out. 

what about when the judge makes the helper drive the dog away from the helper on the long bite and really push the dog.  you cant see these things in a puppy.

Sorry, I was confusing Karthago with von haus Antverpa.

Do the parents get mouthy on the stick hits? Do both parents have the drive to win consistantly? If the parents have nerves of steel the pups should also be well equipt to deal with these pressures. Wscott00 I would be interested to see how you research your puppy purchases. Do you lean towards sertain lines, if so why? Do you pick the pup yourself or with help? If you have help who, the breeder? I'd like to know what you see in a pup that makes you say hmmm.

well as far a pups go i like to see lot and lots of drive, i wont him to chase a sack and forget everything else exist. i should be able to pick him up off the ground by the sack and his tail and never see a change.  i want  pup that is just as pushy and drivey on  the pole as a18 mo old dog.  it isnt its not the pup for me. 

 http://youtube.com/watch?v=icqElZUjx9s

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4wljZvGQEGQ

on the other hand i want a dog that is clear in the head, can handle the stress of training twice a day gettin ready for big events, a dog that can crush the sleeve yet do a perfect out. i can look at a pup and see what he is and GUESS what he will become.  but if i look at a young dog i will have a good idea of what he was like as a pup and have a much better idea of what he will be like at 2 or 3 yrs old.

ive only raised 1 pup from 8wks to sch3. my other dog was a young dog.  but ive seen way too many people buy pups and not grow to be what they want. i want a certian type of dog and i wont train a dog that i dont enjoy training.   so IMO im better of looking at young dogs than puppies.

also there ara a lot of sh*t dogs out there that come from awesome breedings.

The advise I got from the breeder of my first pup I owned to make it to sch title fits well into this post... his advise"Never give up on a dog too soon because it,s very embarrassing to go to a trial and get out scored by the dog you said would never work" My pup Axel Vom Matschenka breeder MIke Worrall...   he was right

 Is there truly a method to our madness? IMO I feel that genetics are a huge part of the picture. Then all the other variables fall onto the table like a bag of marbles. Imprinting is as important for the young pups to me than anything. Too many people set young dogs up for failure because of the little things they do or don't do. Not everyone has the experience nor the help to imprint puppies properly. Reading the dogs to know when to push forward or when to just let them mature some is another one. Walter seems to have a good idea of what he is looking for but again he is looking for that one. Oh the mysterious mystical one we all dream of. Sighhhhhhh   If it were that easy to find that one we might be much happier on this site. But for now we move forward trying to figure out the secret code to the one dog we desire most. Open to interpretation indeed.
 

"well as far a pups go i like to see lot and lots of drive, i wont him to chase a sack and forget everything else exist. i should be able to pick him up off the ground by the sack and his tail and never see a change.  i want  pup that is just as pushy and drivey on  the pole as a18 mo old dog.  it isnt its not the pup for me. 

on the other hand i want a dog that is clear in the head, can handle the stress of training twice a day gettin ready for big events, a dog that can crush the sleeve yet do a perfect out. i can look at a pup and see what he is and GUESS what he will become.  but if i look at a young dog i will have a good idea of what he was like as a pup and have a much better idea of what he will be like at 2 or 3 yrs old."

Wscott, drive you can see in pups for sure at a young age. Grips too. My pup wasn't chewy from day one and no matter how much pressure is put on him, he still only clamps down and sticks like glue. He'll fall asleep on the bite, just closes his eyes and he is in la la land it seems. Pushy, you can deffinatly see the pushy ones. The part about lifting them up seems impressive, sure it looks good to me too but neither of my pups would do that and it doesn't mean they will come off on the field. A few times doing it and frustrating them when they come off and then I can pick them up and they don't come off.

Clear in the head is a little harder to feel for in a pup but a good look at his genetics will help there. I can pick a pup that will have a crushing bite for you anytime you wanna ask, but the outting is a training issue, not genetics. How a dog handles stress is mostly genetic. Are you a frantic person, do you get all hyped up before a trial event? Do your dogs bark in their crate, or relax until it's their turn to work? Parents, parents, parents, and you and the way you handle your dog is what is going to make the biggest diffences here. If you have a good breeder, he/she should be able to tell you what that dog could be at 2-3 with the right handler.

I think it comes down to personal preferences, but there is nothing wrong with people who for what ever reason, choose an older puppy or young dog over an 8 week old pup.  Health clearances are a big factor to many people,  and while I agree breeders can tell you what they think a pup will turn out like, that's very different from seeing it with your own eyes. 

i agree that all those things can be seen at 8 wks i just think the can be seen better at 12 months.

hehehehe.  What's the one thing every dog trainer agrees on?  (don't everyone shout at once)