the cost of a good workingline prospect - Page 5

Hi Don,i do hear you loud and clear and so we should learn to regard shutzhund as a marketing tool to promote a dog and not as a dog's ability to produce.which seems to be common misunderstanding among most.have a nice one.thanx.

I don't know if it is solely a marketing tool. 

It is a test to show which dogs are worthy.  It is a uniform and set test for all that can give us a better idea of what a dog is capable.  Is it perfect?  No, not by any means!

Take the NFL as an example.  They play 16 games in the regular season.  Should we just end it there and say that we will only use our opinion of which shall be deemed the best.  No, we let them play eachother and that will give us a better idea of who is the best.  Is it flawless?  No.  The Champs may have ost to another team that may have matched up differently, but it is a good test, just like Sch and all other sports. 

You can find an untitled dog and deem it worthy.  I'm not saying that isn't the case.  I have seen many dogs without titles that I thought were better than some Sch 3 dogs.  Not every Sch 3 dog is worthy of breeding. 

perhapse,the more clear explantion would be to showcase a dog's ability to go through certain type of training along with his strengths and weakness and also a trainer's strength and weakness and i am all for it if people can learn to do it right.But ,and back to my original point ,it should never be confused with a dogs ability to produce.because that is where it start to get a little scary.

i am not saying this to upset anyone, but it is just the way i see it.......so don't take offence, anyone.

i've had better luck  with european breeders than i have folks here in the u.s.  why is that?  a couple of reasons;  i think.  first of all, these people KNOW the dogs on their pedigrees, have seen them work.  they KNOW the strengths and weakness of the dogs on an individual basis.  they don't have to rely on titles, scores, pictures and videos.  they can look at the dogs and talk to their friends.  many of the european breeders have been working with the same lines for several generations.  they KNOW what's behind these pups and see certain characteristics pop up in each generation.  the other reason is that they have had an opportunity to read the pups - lots of pups out of any given stud or bitch.  they have become very adept at reading dogs and pups.  they KNOW what each pup needs to excel; when to apply pressure, when to let up.  i doubt that they ruin as many pups as we do here in the states.  i guess you could call it expertise through experience.  certainly not a bad thing.

i think this will come about here in the u.s. as well, but it takes time.  we can't expect to know everything about any one bloodline because we have imported one dog.  there are a few breeders here that are breeding 2nd and 3rd generation pups out of their own kennels.  these folks will soon be seeing things the way the europeans do........KNOWING the grandkids, the parents and the grandparents on an individual basis.  better choices can be made with this knowledge.

i have been impressed by the way i've been treated by the europeans.  if i can accurately describe what i am looking for in a pup, they seem to do their best to give me what i am looking for.  in one case, i am quite sure i got the best pup out of the litter.  being a nobody, my chances of getting the best pup out of a u.s. bred litter are slim to none.  yes, i do understand why.  they need to be consious of where they place the pups and hopefully with someone who will title them.  the other side of that coin is this:  novices and amateurs in dog sports need a nice pup, too.  if the young dog can't really do anything, they become discouraged and drop out or have to start over with another dog.

i hope no one is offended by what i've said.  this has been my experience and my thought.  i do see things improving here in the states as time goes on.  we do already have a few breeders breeding as the europeans do.  at some point, i will consider buying domestic again rather than importing.  :)

pjp

pjp

I don't think that anything you say is offensive.

I think that you have some valid points.  Couple that with what I said on another thread and our chances of success are hindered. 

On another thread, and this has been talked about a few times.  DH or Silbersee also brought this up, but America is very big.  Our clubs and dogs are spread out much furthur than in Europe.  Germany is the size of Wisconsin.  Think about how easy it is for someone in Germany to take a ride and see every dog in the country.  There are more clubs and the clubs are all close.  To go to the appropriate stud, you do not have to ship the dog 2000 miles.    I don't know Wisconsin, but how many excellent breeders are in that state or any single state for that matter?  Even if there are 10, which is probably an exaggeration,  compare that to the number of excellent breeders in Germany alone.

I don't like the internet 100%, but in this case I do.  It is a nice tool for breeding.  Research is a lot better than before.