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AA,

You are agreeing with someone that has been repeatedly showing from multiple people he is clueless and you are jumping into his ship. O.K

Just to let you know if you think you doig will protect you I can probaly tell you not just from your post!! I say this because you stated he was in a situation that may not have been extremelt threatening and you boys hacles went up. Raising his hackles is due to he was at his limit of stress it is his last resort before fight or flight. A dog that raises his hackles in this situation will little stress has a nerve issue. Hackles raising because the dog has never been trained or conditioned for stress. 

Speaknow- I agree with you that people try and get a few extra bucks selling dogs as PPD. That is the whole dog world that is crooked. The dog world seems so big but actually it is very small with only a few great trainers and truly honest people...  

ts - perhaps you are correct in saying that raised hackles is an indication of stress through lack of training but my point is still valid as the situation was diffused and didn't get out of control. And for 99% of cases this is all that's required.

I'd always thought raised hackles was an indication of any heightened emotion & not necessarily stress. But I'm here to learn as well as to give my opinion.

AandA

AA, Raising the hackles is the dogs way of showing that he is big and bad in order to try and fend the threat away. It is the last resort in a stressful situation for fight/flight. I am only refering to this situation. If the situation went any future I beleive if your dog did take a fight to the person he would have bit very shallow or just a frontal bit and he would have slipped the bite and then backed away.

A truly confident dog would not need to raise hackles to show he/she is tough. A truly confident dog is built with proper training..

I'd give anything if I could find another dog like my first shepherd but my experience has been they are few and far between. He had no training but could not have asked for a more loyal and dedicated protector. It was like having my own personal bodyguard for 11 years. He never left my side and possibly saved my life when an intruder broke into my house in the middle of the night. I awoke one night to hear a loud crash and glass breaking at my front door and saw my boy hauling ass out of the bedroom. Never had a chance to say a word to him. Never saw what happened next as I was too petrified to move but the intruder was gone in what seemed like only seconds. The dog was strangely calm afterwards, came back to my bedroom door and looked at me then went back to the front door to stand guard. I knew before the incident even happened that dog would fight to his death for me. Not sure about any of the shepherds i have had since, although most have been good watch dogs. Brings a lump to my throat just to think about that dog--and I did buy him a big juicy steak the next day.

Triodegirl, yes, you had a real GSD.  I had had these GSDs over the years too.  If you haven't had one don't waste your time tring to explain it to GSD enthusiasts that haven't had a dog in the house 24/7 like this.  They cannot understand what you are talking about and will argue with you forever telling you that all GSDs, and all dogs, exhibit fear, and all animals exhibit, so do insects, mice, etc. They will make excuses forever pretending they are experts on "true GSD temperanment", based on all their many years training their overlinebred WL GSDs which are kept in the kennel not in the house as the family pet and protector.  To these folks I say, sorry but I have seeen quite a number of GSDs from working lines and showlines that did not exhibit fear when directly confronted by a very aggressive "attacker".  Instead opf breeding for the point winning dog at trials, how about breeding for the dog Capt. Von SDtwephanitz desired and expected, a real family pet that could work all day, and defend his flock and family?

This is the way Capt. Von Stephanitz expected all GSDs to be tempermentally, confident, docile when arounf family and other pets, friends and children, and able to mount an absolute 100% fearless defense when a valid threat occurs ton his watch.  This is normal, expected GSD temperament. When you have one like this it is a great blessing, a dog that can think, discriminate a real threat from a non threat, and then execute a 100% unlimited defense to the real threat.  These dogs are bred with balanced drives and high needs to dominate their territiory and so busy serving their masters that fear doesn't enter into their brains, at all.  Many working line and high showlines have had this bred and trained out of them replacing it with too much prey drive, or too much "show drive", and hyper Sch training for points only can further confound the natural instincts if pushed too hard with the dog kept in a kennel and not a family pet.  When you have this normal GSD temperament in a GSD that lives in the home with his family, his potential to defend protect and serve the family is simply astounding.  These GSDs are good as gold, and if they are attractive with good conformation, all the nicer.

TLS,

After looking at the site you referenced and viewing the one suggested by the other tl, I think your site had a better dhoice of dogs for this purpose. Just beware that the price you pay is NOT for the animal. It is for the dog, the training, the feeding, the housing, and the vet services it may incur. So a 5,000 dollar dog on one of these sites is NOT the same as a dog you might be able to get for the same price on another site without the extras. You could get a trainer in your area to do the same as most of the trainers on these sites and save a bundle or put the difference into a higher quality dog.

I purchased two long haired GSD's from a breeder  90 miles from me for 1250.00 each (discounted from 1500.00 because I purchased two pups from the same litter). I then had both trained in obedience, agility, and protection at the same facility. The brothers of my two dogs are used to protect Bowling Air Force Base so they are the real deal. The training was very reasonable because the academy where we trained offered discounted training for the dogs they sold. So I saved on both ends of the transaction. Plus my dogs got to see their mother and their siblings whenever we went to training.

The man who owned the K-9 academy and his oldest son were both Grand Master Trainers certified by the Elite Working Dog Registry. There are only four of these in the U.S. The other trainer we worked with was from Panama and he and his dog held the record for the largest drug seizure in that country. So the value for my money was very high. I encourage you to shop around and look for trainers who focus on your dog's strengths while simultaneously improving his/her "lesser" skills. Don't feel you have to buy into the whole schutzhund propaganda either. My two did serious protection training with NO sleeves, just loud, aggressive decoys trying to hit them with plastic bats, towels, etc... And many times they came very close to getting clamped down on except I was able to maintain leash control the way I had been instructed. This is why the decoys were comfortable getting so close to my dogs in protection - they knew I had worked hard to learn the concepts they taught me. I was lucky to have such effective trainers. I hope you are as fortunate in your quest as I was. Good luck.

MaxVonPotterdam

"True if things really got out of hand then I couldn't honestly say what he would do. But for 99% of occasions this is all that's required anyway - & for the other 1%, as HardDawg mentioned, just pull a gun out & pop 'em."

Security must be layered. A dog is a nice warning and deterrent for your home but if they make it past the dog you'd better have the peace maker ready. Nothing like a fat 12 gauge to the chest for would be intruders. Your average trouble maker will never make it past your outer permiter.

Security must be layered which adds the most effective defense including;

1)Common sense - the most overlooked defense (especially while in public places and on the road) (locking doors and actually setting security systems in place - this includes the entire family understanding and cooperating)

2)Outer Perimeter security (lights maybe a dog could be usefull here as a warning tool depending on the application)

3)Inner perimeter security (alarm and possibly a dog also)

4)Bedroom security level (firearm - 12 gauge preferred  with flashlight attachment - easy aim)

A dog is just one component of this array.

TLS, I personally purchased a dog from the site you mentioned back in December.  I have not received the dog yet but I'm hoping it should be here within the next couple of weeks.  I'll update you on its quality once I get it.  Good Luck.