One Step Forward and Ten Steps Back - Page 5

Tezz, if you would consider a rescue GSD and if Texas isn't too far for you, please think about looking at the Camp Wolfgang dogs, Dallas area I believe. Last I heard they had literally hundreds of GSD's in need of homes; some may even be titled and  "V" rated. These are dogs that have lost their homes for no fault of their own.

I think you can find their website by googling Camp Wolfgang, but if you can't I'll get the link for you.  I believe their dogs are featured on Pet Finder too. There is so much need there, it is just heartbreaking.

I, too, would like to put in a plug for rescue. My first 3 GSD's were all rescues. I didn't go out looking for them, they just kind of fell into my lap. I've been very fortunate in that only one had any major health issues, and all had wonderful temperments. Tasha wasn't good with kids, but I believe that she'd been teased in her previous home, and one day, pushed back, and that was the end of it. They dumped her in the street. She was fine with most adults, as long as they didn't try to get right in her face when first meeting her.

My current rescue, saved from life on the end of a 8 ft. chain, and a possible bullet in the brain, is just a GREAT dog. His nerves are very solid, he's content to be a couch potato when I'm busy, but also loves a good hike or romp in the park. I've trained him to be my hearing ear service dog, and his manners in public are excellent. He doesn't spook at loud noises, and is very good at ignoring temptations like dropped food. The one thing we need more work on is ignoring other dogs, especially ones that are not under very good control. (He's not aggressive, he just wants to meet and play with them.)

Price has little to do with how healthy your dog is going to be or how long it's going to live. Some of the priciest dogs may be the most 'overbred', and had their health weakened by too much inbreeding. As Louise will tell you, many of the American show lines have poor longevity. It would be a good idea to ask a breeder how long the pup's grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. lived, as this is a very good indicator of the lifespan the pup will have. (Works for humans, too!)

Tezz here's another one for you that has what you call the original look. but again he's a workingline dog. are we noticing a trend here? good structure=workingline. and he's the right color combo for you as well.

2moons: while it's true "Its not the price that determines quality" but generally speaking the better the quality of the line the more you are going to pay. as with most things you are going to pay a little more for a better product.

I went to the site listed

Of the 12 dogs listed as breeding stock, 6 had pedigrees

Of the 6 dogs with pedigrees, not one had a working title or OFA result listed

I am sorry if that is ok - if someone wants to spend $850 for a dog with from parents with this behind them and an unpredictable mix of lines - it is their money.

I would rather spend $1200 and get a dog with two parents with working certifications or sport titles, some type of conformation rating (or at least an independant evaluation), and x-rayed (a stamp or OFA)

I am not saying that a string of SchIII, IPOIII, ZVV2, FH, WH, etc etc confers quality but it is an indicaiton of challenges the dogs have been able to pass.  At least if I have a koer report I know what structural issues may reside with the dog - and even recommendations for what should be considered in the breeding.

I currently own an11 year old dog - thought I was "doing right this time" - mother a very nice german showlines dog, father a very nice czech working lines dog.  All sorts of explanations how this in one dog would "mix" with and "complement' that in the other dog.  Well, I have a roached back, cowhocked, easty-westy, low pasterns, scared of his own shadow dog with a low defense threshold to show for it.  No - if I am getting a puppy I won't gamble on not knowing what is behind it better.  If I am getting an adult dog, I could give a rats ass because WYSIWG.

My two working lines dogs- the one as a puppy turned out remarkably as predicted in temperament and structure. Alas, she was dysplastic even with good hips and ZW on the parents, but - we know that happens. 

The other as an adult - did have the pedigree analyzed and it was a good pedigree - not as good as the females in terms ofsay  percentage of BSP dogs or dogs in the pedigree,  but all predecessor stock had working titiles and some police certifications.  I had the luxury of taking him on his merits and WOW! WOW! WOW!

I may take a puppy from parents without working titles for a good reason, particularly if I know the parents and have seen them work,  but not for a "look" or because a few folks on the internet like the dogs.

I feel I need to elaborate a little about myself (if ya’ll don’t mind) in case there were some misunderstandings.

My involvement in dogs began with a little Samoyed puppy. This puppy came from a registered kennel and happened to be show quality. I wanted that dog – soon I find myself taking confirmation classes LOL. The breeder and I became great friends and we went to many CKC dog shows together. This breeder also taught me a lot and that has formed the way I think today about dogs and breeding in general, we even took a genetics seminar together.

I am not looking for a cheap puppy. I purchased my Samoyed puppy in May/1982 for $600.00. I purchased my first Malamute puppy in Oct/1993 for $600.00. The second Malmute didn’t cost me a thing because the breeder gifted him to me. I don’t mind paying the going rate for a puppy from a registered kennel be it GSD, Malamutt, Malamoose (loving terms of endearment), Samoyed etc, but I will not pay (IMO) inflated prices. We shouldn’t IMO have to pay $2500 and up for a puppy, an older dog yes, but not an 8 week old puppy.

All of my dogs have been show dogs so therefore intact. The only litter in this world that had anything to do with one of my dogs was my first Malamute. This dog was pick male and I owed the breeder a breeding as per contract. Other than that, I have had nothing to do with the breeding of dogs. Never intended to breed and don’t intend to in the future either – it’s not my thing.

I do feel a breeder needs to do things the right way or they seriously shouldn’t be breeding. If people are determined to breed they need to at least do the bare minimum – hips (please). It would be great if elbows could be done as well but that’s pretty basic stuff if you ask me. I have a whole lot more I could say on that topic, but I’ll just leave it at that.

I understand protocol. No, I am not looking for someone who breeds long coats although I did pop on over to the new board to take a peek. The long coats are all too often oversize and I don’t agree with 30”/130 lb GSD’s. I believe in the standards. LSC do show up in regular-sized litters every now and agin and they do seem to have larger bone and often times better structure IMO. I like hairy dogs, what can I say. A LSC would be nice but I don’t HAVE TO have one.

Penny