Saying Hail Mary's before typing this..... - Page 5

Interesting photos, clewsK-9. I think you would be hard pressed  today to find a similar dog at the Sieger, but you might very well find several at a big Schutzhund trial here or in Germany. They certainly look a lot more like workinglines than highlines to me. If I had to pick between the 2 of them using theses photos, I'd go with Klodo, no contest.  In fact I rather like his structure, he looks very agile and athletic. Thanks for posting them.

My problem with all this geometric standard stuff and thus necessitating people breed for that is the dog is first and foremost a working dog(or supposed to be). So........what is the perfect geometrics for optimum working. Take boxing or any working activity, is the optimum person performing that task the perfect physical specimen. Quite, frankly the perfect physical specimen is very seldom the optimum working entity. Great quarterbacks come in all shapes and sizes and the best ones the diversity is even greater. So we go back to the standard....is the standard to be interpreted for beauty or is the standard to be interpreted for function. The two almost never mesh, and I don't want to hear the BS about breeding the perfect physical specimen with working temperament because about 2 out of every 25 dogs possesses this. So do we breed to the other 23  with less than physical and working perfection. Sure we do and based on OUR values of what the GS should be we arrive at the best specimen of that mindset. Most Miss America contestants would not make optimum working women, think about it. (I'm not saying a Miss America CAN't work but they probably wont make the most utilitarian working women.) So again what do we want the GS to be cause that mythical GS is not available to 95 percent of the breeders and if it was, it would create another problem by bottlenecking the genepool to the point that the breed would be mentally deficient.

The standard is the standard but there are two interpretations by the judges. Let's ake for instance the gait. The German Shepherd is a trotter. A dog that's supposed to tend sheep and run all day long using the correct body proportions that provide the efficient effortless movement that allows them to do this. Dogs in the show ring are judged on this structure and ability amoung other things.

On the schutzhund field these trotters are no rockets. Those rockets are no trotters either. But which dog is rewarded with the points? Two dogs with the same dedication to return to the handler or engage the helper. One by physical limitations cannot sprint as quickly as the other. Which dog gets the points and which dog gets the critique; 'Should go a little quicker to the handler'?

As long as the interpretation affects the sport, the interpretation that is awarded will be what breeders breed for. 

Gustav and Dog 1 very good posts and I agree.

Blitzen I too prefer Klodo, he has that tighter coat I so often find myself with (may I add, is well suited here in California) he is lighter, hopefully less likely to break down in the work, looks more athletic as you said and possibly faster .  Just my 2 cents.

4pack,  I'm not sure that photo of Klodo is good enough quality to pass on his coat type, but from what I can tell, I'll agree with your evaluation.  The photo may also have been duplicated so many times and it is cropped so we are probably missing some things that could be relevant. Still, he's a handsome looking dog, isn't he? He looks like he could clear a tall building in a single bound .

I, personally, like the original look of these dogs....they "look" like they can work, endure and appear agile and healthy.  That to me makes them beautiful, especially Klodo.

Thank you all - the threads lately have been very informative and good brain food.

clewsk9s,

who is this "Max" you speak of?

In other words, why should he matter, that was then,
and this is now......................

(Not to be taken the wrong way, Max is the man!!!)

I think some dogs are ridiculously over angled, if people have pictures to look at,
then it should be easy to get within range or close to the standard.

This guy here was described as being closest to the standard, what do you think?
Were the handlers making an unreasonable statement?

"It's not a damn dress cut out from a pattern!"  (This pic was actually cut out of my GSD book!)

Horand embodied for the enthusiasts of that time the fulfillment of their fondest dreams. He was big for that period, between 24" and 24 1/2", even for the present day a good medium size, with powerful frame, beautiful lines, and a nobly formed head. Clean and sinewy in build, the entire dog was one live wire. His character was on a par with his exterior qualities; marvelous in his obedient fidelity to his master, and above all else, the straightforward nature of a gentleman with a boundless zest for living. Although untrained in puppy hood, nevertheless obedient to the slightest nod when at this master's side; but when left to himself, the maddest rascal, the wildest ruffian and incorrigible provoker of strife. Never idle, always on the go; well disposed to harmless people, but no cringer, mad about children and always in love. What could not have been the accomplishments of such a dog if we, at that time, had only had military or police service training? His faults were the failings of his upbringing, never of his stock. He suffered from a superfluity of unemployed energy, for he was in Heaven when someone was occupied with him and was then the most tractable of dog."

~Captain von Stephanitz
Originator of the breed

Okay, I have thought twice, & I still want to say this; so here goes...what has always impressed me about this breed, is that the spirit, character, personality, mentality, whatever you want to call it, of most of the GSDs I have known in my life still so closely matches Captain von Stephanitz' description of Horand...and the expression on the face of Peter, the dog pictured above, is the same look the I see on Beckett's face at times  .it's remarkable. And it's what I value most, such intelligence seen shining from those eyes!  And it's the part of the breed standard that is probably hardest to measure, but, to me, is most important. jackie harris

Nice post, Jackie. That's the look of eagles .