Studs who produce proven and titled top sport progeny - Page 5

Rose, I'm sure D.H. knows as much about GSD hips as anyone, probably more than most.

Then Ill latch on to him for sure....I  am a pusher when I study something   I want answers...that make sense....one says this another says that...     all the years Ive been in this,,,,,my two mentors have now retired and Ive discovered   a whole lot of people that dont even know what Im talking about....and one told me    who cares    just breed ...you will find out if it was right......NO THANK YOU... Im looking at past and want to know how it effects what I get now....I trusted the people that sold  me my foundation  but now I see some things I want to know about   and Jeck was one of them......

Weithurchen lines have a lot of fast normals in it...and Zilla was the Mother of my bitch..and Cadette v Busc was her dad....well right off the bat I find     fast normals in top line of him also.....several    and Sagus has Fast and hes the grdad of my Konig....I guess I never dug deep and now I want some help to study hips and ratings...comparing as I go...Jeck is in one other stud of mine and one female....

I have a lot to study..... then the new girl  is    out of Iska v Kapbusch  and Lago      found   fast normals there also....

I dont know where to look for info    so DH can beam me up...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DH:     http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/5/126129.html

Id like your comment of the use of    Uran v Wildsteigerland in this pedigree...??????

Blitzen    go to the thread   correct size Male,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I posted a thread for you.................

Can anyone tell me what the European rating "C" would be equal to with OFA?  I'm not familiar with the European rating system but from what I gathered in my reading I thought it would be like a "fair"??  Am I right on this?

"Ernst and Erbo Weinbergblick are/were both here.  Great producers if you are willing to wait and cull"

JRT please explain what you ment by this statement?

thanks,

Debby

castlebrookshepherds.net/enter.html

Yes, the positioning is great.

I would say that the dog would be rated as a "normal" or OFA "good" (possibly, but not likely, "excellent"). In my opinion, there is no joint laxity.  What Molly refers to as a "flattening" of the femoral head is entirely normal--depending of the age of the dog. If you drop an imaginary line perpendicular line from the upper edge of the acetabular rim (and from a lateral aspect along the acetabular rim towards the ischium), you will see that roughly three-quarters of femoral head is seated within the joint capsule. A two-thirds inclusion of the head is quite acceptable. Furthermore, the "lips" of the acetabulae are fairly well defined.

The flattened area (a fovea or "cup") is the fovea capitis femoris which serves as attachment (or provides an "origin") for the ligamentum teres femoris (also known as, the ligamentum capitis femoris or round ligament of the femur--a misnomer since the ligament is not round) to the acetabulum. This ligament does not stabilize the joint but provides "housing" for the femoral artery which originates at the obturator artery. This blood supply to the femoral head provided by the femoral artery is not necessary upon the completion of skeletal growth. The joint space is actally tight and uniform until it reaches the fovea.

Ideally, for the dog to receive a rating of OFA "excellent", the femoral necks could be longer. somewhat narrower, and more well-defined--the overall skeletal development could more pronounced. I have had several dogs rated as OFA excellent" including my Alex vom Nord Rasen.

I had a dog whose xrays (similar to the above) were almost not submitted to the OFA for the same reasons outlined by others. The dog's hips were rated as OFA "good".

OK, so far we have moderate to fair, good, and good with excellent possible but not likely. I had hoped for some more opinions on this. Always easy to call a dog on the final certification but when you see the x-ray things get a bit more complicated. Wrong topic for this thread, I think this warrants a new thread perhaps. Would love to start a new one for this, maybe get some more x-rays posted. 
What becomes apparent already though is that the same x-ray brings forth a lot of different opinions and for different reasons. I can tell you this, I have had similar results from different vets who have seen this x-ray. Will not provide rating til we have some more opinions, won't let you off this easy :o). 
So that you don't feel I am chickening out, I had predicted a2.
FYI - German dog, so we know his lineage is certified and titled. So lets just concentrate on this x-ray for the questions for now. X-ray was done just after the first birthday as is common in Germany.

It was a bit nerve wrecking to hear that you had x-rayed Cora after she came to you Molly. Especially at that age. With the work that some of the dogs are exposed x-rays on an older dog can show a lot of changes, does not mean they have to. Man, that was one female I wish I had had the space for back then.
YR, I have seen you rave about Iska and Lago in the past, nice to hear when the dogs make a good impression after they have been imported. They are both great dogs. If I recall correctly Lago had a perfect 100 in protection at his SchH2. :o) One of his brothers is a working K9.

I'm not all that familiar with SV ratings, but using the OFA comparisons, a good OFA should receive an A2. OFA likes those "flat spots" to show on an xray, the reason their positioning technique suggests rotating the knees inwardly and showing the knees on the xray. Also the infamous Norberg angle is better than the 105 degrees and that generally indicates a dog with normal hips. At one time, the OFA used that angle to determine the degree of laxity, but they don't mention it on their site, so they may not use it anymore.  It's been controversial. If any of you want to try to see that angle, it's  determined by finding the exact center of the femur head and drawing a straight line from that point to the edge of the corresponding acetabular rim.  If you're interested in seeing photos of hips and the Norberg angle, do a google search. Frankly, I wouldn't be all that shocked to hear this dog received an A1 and/or an OFA excellent.

In the big picture D.H. has hit the nail on the head by saying that most hip xrays, especially the normal ones, will draw a variety of opionions. That does make it easier to understand how the SV and OFA can differ in their ratings. Considering the experience I had with those 2 littermates rated mildy dyspalstic with the first xrays and getting OFA goods the second time around, I'd suggest that anyone with a dog they feel has not received the correct OFA rating to have that dog xrayed again and resubmit it to OFA. You just never know. BTW both of those dogs were used at stud a number of times, most out of them were also xrayed and all got OFA clearance. Never any HD. Their sire was a good, their dam an excellent and their entire litter of 7 cleared their hip xrays; 6 got OFA numbers, the 7th was a pet and never submitted.

Do owners typically anesthesize their dogs for SV xrays?

DH - I would have x-rayed any dog, at any age, that came to me with fast-normal hips, before I would breed them.  I don't trust that fast-normal means good hips.  In my experience it could mean good hips, or not good enough for breeding.  So at 6 years old yep I x-rayed her before I bred her.  And was more than pleased that her hips looked SUPER, and no surprise after seeing her x-rays for myself, that they came back OFA Good at 6 years old.  Very nice female for certain.  Just turned 10 years old and still doing great - missing some teeth now but living the good life as a good friend's constant companion and protector -

Cora v Granit Rose at 10 years old, far right -