Show gait not Natural - Page 4

Pjdogs has it correct. Any knowledgable W. German breeder/exhibitor or breed warden knows that true gait is only discernable on a "loose lead" or "off lead". Gaiting on a tight lead covers many flaws. A GSD can have a true flying trot (complete but brief air borne status, called "suspension") without a long lower rear thigh (sickle hocked) and cannot have one with sickle hocks. There is actually no such thing as the term "overangulation implies". There is no front in history that has over a 90 degree angle between the scapula and the upper arm and this is the ideal, althought 105 degrees is still okay if the ligamentation and coordination is good enough to allow correct gait. Any dog with correct length of the upper and lower thight bones and proper ligamentation and rear muscle mass cannot be "overangulated in the rear" (this would make it correct). Anytime one refers to over angulation it implies (albeit incorrectly) that the angle bewteen the upper and lower rear thigh bones is too large. The actual problem here is a lower thigh that is over 1-2 inches longer than the upper thigh, thus the GSD hocks slopes rearward from the toe upward, giving the look of a scythe or a sickle, thus the term sickle hock. These dogs have long rear stride and a short lived spring like wind-up and release (which looks impressive to the unknowledgeable), but also produces either roll up in the rear or steepening of the croup to compensate. Thus the rear covers more ground than the front can handle unless the front "lifts and holds (padding), unless the tight lead prevent "the drop". The GSD so constructed "runs out of gas" very rapidly because it takes a great deal of energy to move when built like this. Many of these dogs have a pushed forward or incorrect front and are often way too long in loin and/or back. To a novice or inexperienced person this looks like "extreme sidegait" or a "flying trot" when on a tight lead. If one looks closely they will notice a tendency to rollup in the rump or a small hitch, or a "rumba" at the front of the pelvis and a "whipping action" in the back (also a compensation). A correctly proportion correctly lengthed GSD paces at low speed and then (when off lead or on loose lead) moves to a very powerful, smooth, balanced, flying trot or gait as his speed of movement increases. Of course VA1 X 2 Fanto was the ideal mover with true suspension. By far the best training films ever made on correct m,ovement were a four part series by a prominant and highly respected breeder on this board (I think his name is Carillos or something like that, if I remember correctly). I am not impressed at all with the Linda Shaw stuff. I don't think she understand what I am referring to. Wynthea Strickland's diagrams on movement in her classic book on the GSD is praiseworthy. She has it correct. So does Mr. Carillo (sp?) I recommend you examine her diagrams and his awesome movies.

GSDs with long lower thighs (sickle hocks) do not open up at the hock, that is they do not fully extend the hock (it is "locked up"). When someone talks of more abgulation in the front than less, although seemingly a paradox, it means that the angle is actually 90% or less, but still less than the acceptable 105 degree or greater degree shoulder. Increases in front angulation refer to increases in acuteness of the angle of the scapula to the upper arm to approach 90 degress. ASn angle numerically greater (eg 105 degrees is still less in the sense of allowing more front reach and follow thorough (ie range of motion, like a swinging pendulum").

One sure tip-off of either a steep croup or tendency to sickle hocks is the rotation or twisting of the rear hocks inward at the most rearward part of the range of motion. This is a compensation for either or both conditions and itself makes the GSD have les endurance and stability and agility.

Thanks Preston. Appreciate the info although I had to re-read it several times lol. Although I don't show it is easy to spot a gait that like I said looks un-natural, When you just don't get that strong smooth impressive movement.

Preston, Good commentary. I suspect you are refering to the Canine Training Systems series with Ricardo Carbajal. If so, I quite agree. He is quiet thorough on the mechanics of GSD construction. DR, I would be shocked to see a dog that is good for anything at Westminster. I have difficulty watching any AKC show. I can watch most breeds, but am sickened at the pathetic and ungainly American Shepherds. They have lost everything that defines a GSD (except for the saddle and mask) and replaced it with a caricaturized conglomeration of mis-matched parts, weak nerves, and nonexistent drives. Please forgive my vehemence, but this could be the most cruel and degrading thing that Man has ever done to an animal. We had best heed the warning, as overlong, oversized dogs with weak drives, weak nerves, and VERY deep rear angulation are becoming more common than ever, and many people do not know enough to stop it. Best Wishes, Jonah

The correctt name is Ricardo Carbajal of delconusur kennels. This man made the best videos (4) on cotrrect confirmation and movement available. I don't know if they are still available, but if you can get them, it is very worth while.

"I would be shocked to see a dog that is good for anything at Westminster." Then prepare to be shocked. The #1 GSD at Westminister this year was also the #1 herding dog in the country. Ch Kaleefs Geneva Aeval-Achtung http://www.dognews.com/doglinks/rechler_lange/index.html

Where do you see that Sunsilver? All I can find is that some website called "Dognews" picked him as the #1 herding dog. I cannot find any info where he actually won a herding competition? Not saying not here just can't find any info??

DR, In AKC lingo he is a herding dog because he belongs to the herding group. I would bet that he has never seen a sheep. Jonah

The Kaleef website says he was the # 1 herding dog in 2003 and 2005. Unfortunately, that is all the info they give. I've searched for more and can't find it. However, he is a Dallas son, and here's a pic of his daddy herding: http://www.nvo.com/glyn/pictures/view.nhtml?profile=pictures&UID=10089 One of the posters on this site, Firethorn worked with Dallas, and here is what she had to say about him: "I had the great pleasure of knowing Dallas very well. He and his owner trained with me the to earn his herding titles. This dog was awesome. One of the best tending dogs I've ever worked with. He easily could have done HGH had his owner been interested. As it was he is the only Best in Show winner in America that has a working trial title, he earned his HSCs at age nine. He had wonderful stock sense, incredable work ethic and that willingness to please that characterizes a great tending dog. And he could take a hard correction, responding with "oh that is what you meant" Great temperment. He has produced a number of progeny that are tending sheep as well. He also has changed the look of the AMerican dog to one of much more type, better feet, less angulation, improved secondary sex characteristics. He sired about 120 litters, produced at least seven select animals, about ten best in show dogs and more conformation champions in the US than any other dog ever." So, there's hope for the AKC Shepherds yet. I know, you may not agree, but we don't all have to see things the same way. :-)