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by OGBS on 18 February 2014 - 16:02
Exactly Von Isengard!
Growling on a bitesuit for a dog trained for police work is a lot different than a dog vocalizing on a sleeve for Schutzhund.
Growling is what dogs do when they fight. It's a natural part of any dog.
I don't mind a dog growling on a sleeve in Schutzhund training either, if the helper has upped the pressure to the point of fighting instead of playing.
In my opinion, a Schutzhund dog needs to have that type of pressure put on it in training because you never know what you will see in a trial with an unfamiliar helper.
This does not mean that a puppy needs to see this type of pressure, or any dog not mentally mature enough to handle it.
Growling on a bitesuit for a dog trained for police work is a lot different than a dog vocalizing on a sleeve for Schutzhund.
Growling is what dogs do when they fight. It's a natural part of any dog.
I don't mind a dog growling on a sleeve in Schutzhund training either, if the helper has upped the pressure to the point of fighting instead of playing.
In my opinion, a Schutzhund dog needs to have that type of pressure put on it in training because you never know what you will see in a trial with an unfamiliar helper.
This does not mean that a puppy needs to see this type of pressure, or any dog not mentally mature enough to handle it.
by duke1965 on 18 February 2014 - 17:02
I watched it without sound and look at bodylanguage of dog while helper is more than passive , even when the dog is on the bite the helper is avoiding any pressure, so like to see him with pressure of helper also BEFORE the bite
by OGBS on 18 February 2014 - 19:02
Hello Duke,
How are you? I hope you and your dogs are well!
I wasn't commenting specifically about the dog in these videos.
My comments were general statements.
Myself, personally, I do not see anything too remarkable about the dog in the videos.
I, especially, do not like the part in the second video when the handler asks the decoy to move his leg.
I would have liked to see more response from the dog when he did move his leg.
I know the handler was not going to release the dog at that moment, but, the dog was looking right at the decoy when he moved and there was no response from the dog.
I also did not see the point of sending the dog after that when he wasn't moving.
The dog seems confused when he does send him and it takes the handler a lot of cajoling to get the dog to bite even half-assed.
I understand sending a dog on a passive subject, but, this wasn't a good example.
As for pressure, there is virtually none in these videos.
To be fair, this is two short clips of this dog at brief moments in time.
I would like to see how the dog reacts to pressure, as well.
How are you? I hope you and your dogs are well!
I wasn't commenting specifically about the dog in these videos.
My comments were general statements.
Myself, personally, I do not see anything too remarkable about the dog in the videos.
I, especially, do not like the part in the second video when the handler asks the decoy to move his leg.
I would have liked to see more response from the dog when he did move his leg.
I know the handler was not going to release the dog at that moment, but, the dog was looking right at the decoy when he moved and there was no response from the dog.
I also did not see the point of sending the dog after that when he wasn't moving.
The dog seems confused when he does send him and it takes the handler a lot of cajoling to get the dog to bite even half-assed.
I understand sending a dog on a passive subject, but, this wasn't a good example.
As for pressure, there is virtually none in these videos.
To be fair, this is two short clips of this dog at brief moments in time.
I would like to see how the dog reacts to pressure, as well.
by vk4gsd on 18 February 2014 - 23:02
really appreciatte these comments so much better than looking at finished dogs at trial. keep in mind this is a green dog and i am guessing he has had some serious discussions with the handler re control but not the time to really train it, the first vid which i am still trying to find the dog looked like his intention was to unzip the decoy's stomach to feed off him.
duke the dog goes off leash on a slippery floor into a building and engages a passive decoy in a room - that's not confidence???
dog isgreen and new to the country and handlers - not confidence?
as for growling i hear a lot that it is insecurity - could be insecurity that he will lose the man as much as anything, i don't make any general rules on growling behaviour without knowing and seeing the dog train in different contexts.
not sure where the half-ass grip comment came from, not a left arm hard sleeve presentation, WTF??
i tried donating money (small amount) to the PD that bought this dog, they never got back to me?
duke the dog goes off leash on a slippery floor into a building and engages a passive decoy in a room - that's not confidence???
dog isgreen and new to the country and handlers - not confidence?
as for growling i hear a lot that it is insecurity - could be insecurity that he will lose the man as much as anything, i don't make any general rules on growling behaviour without knowing and seeing the dog train in different contexts.
not sure where the half-ass grip comment came from, not a left arm hard sleeve presentation, WTF??
i tried donating money (small amount) to the PD that bought this dog, they never got back to me?
by Hired Dog on 19 February 2014 - 00:02
VK, you sound like a very nice person, but, let me tell you that when two trainers are talking, the only thing they will agree about is that the third one is wrong.
I did not see that dog when it entered the room, for all i know the helper was jumping up and down like an organ grinders monkey. There are a few more things i want to touch on, please allow me to get back to it tomorrow.
I did not see that dog when it entered the room, for all i know the helper was jumping up and down like an organ grinders monkey. There are a few more things i want to touch on, please allow me to get back to it tomorrow.
by duke1965 on 19 February 2014 - 18:02
VK, I think any well socialized(environmentally) with good preydrive will bite like this on passive helper, here is clip of me testing a GSD on slippery floor
by Koach on 19 February 2014 - 22:02
Duke I like LOVE that dog.
by vk4gsd on 20 February 2014 - 00:02
duke if 1965 is your year of birth we have sumthin in common. you have always been on my watch list of breeders, i just can't follow your peds very well and makes me cautious, too many dogs i don't get/know.
i would love to see you apply that same level of pressure to kimo, dog i posted, what do you predict kimo would respond.
even more i would love you to apply that same pressure to my own dog, mebbe i am blinded by bias but my dog just seems to have more dash/spark/intensity/aggresion than most what i see pretty much anywhere, not bragging just what i see.
only a sleeve here but what you think of my boy, the decoy is a bit useless and can't put up any resistance so allow for that;
i would love to see you apply that same level of pressure to kimo, dog i posted, what do you predict kimo would respond.
even more i would love you to apply that same pressure to my own dog, mebbe i am blinded by bias but my dog just seems to have more dash/spark/intensity/aggresion than most what i see pretty much anywhere, not bragging just what i see.
only a sleeve here but what you think of my boy, the decoy is a bit useless and can't put up any resistance so allow for that;
by duke1965 on 20 February 2014 - 07:02
thanks koach, he is working as a police K9 right now
VK , that is my date of birth LOL, your dog looks very good to me,and I see there are problems to get good helperwork everywhere, even in certified helpers I see helpers that can wok the IPO routine very nice, bu cant read or build up a dog, but it is like it is in breeding, certified/titled is better for most LOL
about the dogs on my pedigrees I can be short, I breed dogsfor the qualites they have,not for their fame, and most famous dogs dont have the qualities im looking for, and my offspring works well in sport, personal protection,and law enforcement
VK , that is my date of birth LOL, your dog looks very good to me,and I see there are problems to get good helperwork everywhere, even in certified helpers I see helpers that can wok the IPO routine very nice, bu cant read or build up a dog, but it is like it is in breeding, certified/titled is better for most LOL
about the dogs on my pedigrees I can be short, I breed dogsfor the qualites they have,not for their fame, and most famous dogs dont have the qualities im looking for, and my offspring works well in sport, personal protection,and law enforcement
by Gustav on 20 February 2014 - 13:02
Duke, that is nice dog, I see the same things you do Koach! Duke is one of a short list of breeders that could send me a pup unseen, because I know he knows his lines and what he is looking at.
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