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by myret on 31 January 2011 - 13:01
by myret on 31 January 2011 - 13:01
Duderino
I think it you that are looking for a discussion,since you constanly is talking dirt about the gsd breed and you praise the mals ,so I wonder if you dislike the gsd som much why are you in this forum ,I have not seen you write a nice thing about the breed ,I constantly read about how good you think the mals are.
I agree that the mals may be faster and more agile than the gsd and maybe more driven than alot ,but their nerves is not what the dog is known for
by KYLE on 31 January 2011 - 14:01
Original question by OP:
"I have been looking at him and think he looks like a very good gsd with very good working abilitys so I wonder why is he not used for breeding females?????"
I believe these types of dogs would be a great addition to adding athleticism to the modern schutzhund GSD. I like to see police, knpv and ring titles in a dogs pedigree. It tells you that there is more than just schutzhund "sport" titles behind the dog. If you do look at the pedigrees they have older schutzhund lines in them. The problem is the breeding for and seeking points dogs. I'll take a club level dog because he has a "civil edge" (but controlable) to him over a points dog any day.
This is good stuff. Maybe some ring enthusiest can explain a couple of the gripping exercises and why it is more difficult than schutzhund.
Kyle
by Jeff Oehlsen on 31 January 2011 - 16:01
The best answer is that we are not looking for the bite, the bite will happen with a good dog, we are worried about control. There is no pattern per se that a dog can use to know when or when not to bite. The dog has to be able to stay in drive. The on off switch leads to a lot of "0"s in ring.
Many people look at FR and only see the shallow bite, which is what they are trained to do in Sch. They are taught that a shallow bite is a shit dog. Sometimes they see that the sleeve is perfectly shaped for the dogs mouth, and that it is a still target, but most of the time, they do not see that.
In Ring, you are wearing a suit. Those guys you see in videos of trials are wearing almost nothing. It pays to not allow the dog to bite huge. It is not a sleeve where the worst that happens is your shoulder gets sore, the dogs can turn you into hamburger in one day. So, there is that.
THen in FR, your dog has to out right away. A dog all up in a suit might not let go, and even if he did, he might snag a tooth, and loose points. So there is that silly "grip" issue. They look to see that little puppies bite full, and that is the last they give a crap about it.
In the defense of handler in Mondio, a lot of GSD's fall asleep. They cannot maintain the intensity of drive needed. Some need constant stimulation, which sounds easy enough to train, but we also have two decoys, so the one is a distraction and the other hits. Why fart around with that when you can just get a Mal ? A dog in Sch needs the higher thresholds to deal with the training method.
FR dogs not getting bred so much is one of those really really stupid SV things. Naturally, they are idiots, some of the dogs are only a few generations off the Sch lines and that is their own natural disaster in the making.
With the idiots that are in charge of things, I am truly amazed that we even have breeds. Here in the states, the little elitist F____s now are requiring more than one scorebook for a dog. HOW DARE you put their score in with that "other" organizations score. Bunch of ............... never mind. I have my fans that go through and read what I write and hold it against me. A LOT. Wait till I see some of them in person. LOL Think I am mean when I write ??
Sorry, had to add that for my "fans" they are getting old.
by KYLE on 31 January 2011 - 17:01
grip 1 (grp)
n.
1.
a. A tight hold; a firm grasp
b. The pressure or strength of such a grasp
A manner of grasping and holding
"The Bite Box when done properly helps to teach proper gripping behavior early in young dogs and helps produce FULL and CALM GRIPS"
Grip is the Police K9 community "PC" word for bite. To the general public grip does not suggest the damage associated with biting. Grip also connotes a holding action.
Sorry for having to argue this point. But its common place on this board.
Kyle
by SportySchGuy on 31 January 2011 - 17:01
This is a rediculous thread anyway. Arguing GSD vs. Mal is pointless. Its like arguing which is better hamburgers vs. hotdogs.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 31 January 2011 - 17:01
Some of this thread is weird. I have no idea why any PD would buy a dog that could not jump into a vehicle. THat seems sorta basic.
I didn't see the GSD vs Mal argument here. However, there are a lot of misconceptions about Mals by GSD people being "nervy". THere will always be nervy dogs in both breeds, but many Mals are reactive, and if you have a GSD, I could see where you would consider a reactive dog nervy.
I am glad that people are asking about ring dogs, not only personally, but because maybe they will find some things out that I have yet to find. I have watched some trials where the dogs were not all that great in the bitework, but were doing the jumps and the OB really well. I have seen a few dogs that were all that and a bag of chips, but lost a lot of points for being what they were.
Most of the training I have seen with ring people the dogs have to bring it themselves. There is not a lot of pumping up that I can see, and there is not a lot of time wasted on shaping a behavior to "fit" the sport. However, there always could be, and I am still looking to see more training videos to see if that is happening. So far, the dog is just working without a lot of drive building, as far as I can see.
Some of the kennel names are old guys with many many years of FR experience and they are getting the FR3 out of the way so that they can do Campagne. I really like that sport, unfortunately I am hearing that it is getting out of fashion. That would suck, there are some really really cool videos out there of the GSDs and the rest doing Campagne in parks. It really tests if the dog knows the routine, or knows what is being asked of it.
by KYLE on 31 January 2011 - 17:01
Kyle
by judron55 on 31 January 2011 - 17:01
by Don Corleone on 31 January 2011 - 18:01
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