No wonder Schutzhund people have a bad reputation - Page 4

Thanks gustav- i follow and agree.

off to track my two and do some obedience.

Sunsilver: "You can teach an old dog new tricks... Just keep an open mind, and give it a try."
If this is to me I'm not sure what you mean...perhaps read my first post again....like I said my training is motivational...I reward wanted behavior but correct negative behavior.  The dogs I've handled have worked nice for me and taken a correction well so never had to go to any extremes.

You may do very well working with soft dogs....I do not work soft dogs. 

Feather: "Did you just say NEEDED to HANG their dogs? THey also needed to get arrested for animal cruelty, that is a shame for you to even try to say they needed to do it."

They needed to because their dogs were trying to bite them for giving them a leash correction.  It was partly the handler defending themselves from getting mauled...and partly putting the dog in his place.

When you have a dominant or sharp dog that tries to tear you up because you corrected him with a leash for going to the helper when you said heel, you let me know how you make out.

Feather you are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about...the corrective method must be equal to the infraction...you don't bring a knife to a gunfight...I do not condone overcorrecting a dog for something minor, but undercorrecting a dominant dog is not too bright either.

Well said GSDPACK!

Feather,
Do you use a choke collar, as most of the AKC people do? 
They are much more abusive and do much more damage to a dog's neck than a prong collar ever will.

Yoshy,
I've rescued and trained many dogs over the past 10 years. I haven't had one yet that couldn't be trained using a prong collar. Usually, and if used properly, there is minimal effort in corrections. It didn't matter what type of drive, or the amount of drive, or any issues that the dog may have had. As you know, it's how you use it. I have known, and do know, many dogs that get excited at the sight of a prong collar, or the sound of it clanking when you take it out. The dog knows it is going to get to do something and they are excited about it. 

As for food as a motivator, some of the time a dog will not readily accept food from a strange person. This happens a lot with rescued GSDs. They are supposed to be aloof, so, until you have built a bond with the dog it may not take food from you in a formal training setting. They don't really want to play the, "I did something good, give me a reward game" yet. You need to build some trust with the dog. A lot of trainers make the mistake of saying a particular dog will not take food as a motivator and leave it at that. You can always go back and try it again later. If you have the dog long enough most will begin to respond to food. I actually like that in a dog. It shows me they are thinking. 

edit

Feather.

Believe me I know that those things can be used incorrectly, abusivly, but your making it seem like it is alwasy abusive.  I use a prong regularly and all it does with my dogs is get their attention.  A friend of mine uses a shock collar, correctly, because her dog is so dog aggresive that he can't be snapped out of his 'red zone' any other way.  Also,  `1zis kneeing a dog in the chest when it jumps on you abusive?  Because literally every trainer I've talked to, ever, has told me to do that. 
Again I askyou,  what are these modern techniques you speak of?  I know there's praise training and clicker, but I've always seen these used together with a choke or a prong.  WHat method do you train your dog with? 

 Quote: Jeff, maybe we can have an intelligent conversation about this when you sober up.

Well, lets see, I don't drink, and you still don't know what it is you are talking about. I do have a primer on housebreaking if you would like me to send it to you. 

It gets old when dipshits like you keep perpetuating a myth.

 Quote: Sunsilver, any modern trainer unless they are ignorant looks down on Koehler those methods are outdated and cruel. He recommended all kinds of torturous and abusive methods. If a dog diggs a hole he said fill the hole with water and hold his head under until he is sure he will drown. I'd hate to be your dog if you read old books for the 1970s on how to break a dog in, for barking, beat the dog with a belt. You wont be able to do well in schutzhund if you use methods like this, you won't have a dog thats happy to work. Plety of schh trainers with more positiv less abusive methods can tell you

I see you are clueless about Koehler as well. In the 50's 40's if the dog would not stop digging, then the dog would get shot. They did not play with a stupid dog like they will today. So, you assume that it is harsh, but it is not. It was the last resort.

I was brought up with his method. If it is so abusive, then why does it work so well when you follow it ? Not go to some trainer, but grab the book and follow his directions.


Sunsilver, again, you say you do not do Sch, but are going along with all these imaginary things. Please tell me who it was that helicoptered a dog at a club ?? What club was it ??

THese two little questions shut your ass down completely. Why is that ? Is it because you are lying ?

 Hmm  - well .. some people think .. THEY know HOW to train .. I suppose .. you need to kick a dog If ... You either mis read the dog [ knitwit ] . and in that endeavor cannot not develop the correct relationship .. or ... you are so inept ... that you do not understand : when a dog does not perform - try first stepping back to verify that what you think You taught IS what the dog thinks it has learned !! Or vice a verse .. what the dog has performed is what YOU  have taught !! Now .. a little laugh  here : kick my dog in the blind or any where else ... he'll turn around .. and .. bite you !!.. and you would have deserved it ... what foolishness !! using your hands or you feet on a dog [ especially aiming this to novices to know ] IS a great way to get a very serious lightening bite !! not to mention -- the message " dog you better worry about me ! [ maybe i am your enemy in protection work too ] !! - just the type of relationship you want ! yya .. you'll will have the dog excel at working .. won't you .. a great way to build up the dog's  performance and emotion ....... LAST NOTE TO NOVICES . LAIME BRAIN ACTING LIKE THAT _ KNOW THIS .. DOGS CAN HARBOR FEELINGS OF RESENTMENT! again the best way to establish a working relationship [ of safety and trust ] with your dog ..