NO....MORE TRAINERS..!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Page 4

R1,
        I love Mindy, this was the horse Clinton put alot of time in, before he got Diez his gelding.
Mindy reminds me of my Nicky.  Mindy is Clinton's baby girl.


By the way on another note hitting a dog on the head is not something you would ever teach
at a class as a trainer.  But there is a less aversive technique that the dog does not associate with you as much
as he see's jumping on people as unpleasant experience. 

What most trainers do is set the puppy up to jump up on the trainer. And the trainer will not give the puppy
a comfortable place to land when he throws his body on your leg.  The trainer will have a knee there when the
puppy thinks he will get the pay off. By the contact he is looking for on something softer.

The puppy begins to see the whole experience as unpleasant, but does not necessarly see it as you striking him.

The trainer my call the puppy over many times until the puppy comes without jumping up on him. This is
something most people should do with their puppy to teach them not to jump up. Just don't  give them
a nice place to land. 

You are  their primary reinforcer, you should not be slapping them or hitting them on the head.. Unless the
puppy viciously bites you, than I would smack them. But always set your dog up for success , and keep the
training on a positive note. Dogs and Horses will shut down on you if you become to overly corrective.
If you are giving way to many corrections, you need to take another look at your training program.

You are the dogs Primary reinforcer, and it's primary reinforcement......

To my horse.. alfalfa is her primary reinforcement, unless I have not
spent much time with her for a while. Than she cares less about her food and more about me.
She loves attention from me...... Some times it's a toss up....food or Max? Most of time it's food.

I never,ever, ever knee a dog in the chest.  It's a bullshit lazy technique that can really injure a dog.  I taught martial arts for years and know first hand what a punch or knee to the sternum can do.  I am available for demonstration on anybody who feels the need to knee a dog to prevent it from jumping.

Phil..........You lay one hand on me and I"ll have Steve1 ...KICK YOUR ASS!!!

Don't knee them just don't give them a soft landing....Ya kneeing them would be
bad thing if you did it hard enough to break their sternum .
It should be unpleasant.. not a karate blow. It should take about 5 6 times
and than the puppy does not like the feel of hitting your knee when he is looking for
a soft spot.

Don't use Karate on your puppy!!!

So if the puppy jumps on you from behind, dislocating your knee to bend backwards is preferable?  I think just picking them up and sailing them against the wall while shouting "no jumping or leave it or no bite" or some other such crap is so much better.

I simply stand on the lead and restrict a jump up with a verbal correction.
Give the command to sit and stay and a leash correction if needed.
I've heard knee the dog, step on the dogs feet, all kinds of crap.
Even heard someone talking about a water bottle.

Best way to stop jumping up is to do it very early on when the pup is still young and a puppy, not encourage it as some people do with a puppy.

"Best way to stop jumping up is to do it very early on when the pup is still young and a puppy, not encourage it as some people do with a puppy."



YES!

Most bad habits are formed early and could easily be avoided.
My dogs learn manners before obedience.
Yet I must confess I let Maddy jump up to greet me sometimes and she has done the same thing to company.
So.......  I am to blame.
Depends on the company, she has her favorites......lol

In puppy class the trainer uses the technique I said, but the
sternum is never contacted and sets high on the puppies chest.

They make contact around the belly or soft part under the ribs.

This I have said this to address a class for new dogs and puppies about 6 months.
Some how I envisioned a unruly puppy running about the group disrupting the
class. Trainers are generally ready for such disturbances, by at least a couple
of dogs or puppies.

The little ones you should start early with a mild correction so it never gets to that
point. But if it does, it's not something that will hurt or harm the puppy. It is just very
uncomfortable for him to do. It not abusive as you are implying it is.

I have seen trainers on video kneeing and kicking dogs, this is abusive.
It is absurd to think that is what I am saying.

Moons,




Here come your girl friends 85lb Labrador straight at you ready to
jump up on your nice suit and give you a slobbering big kiss.

You don't want to hurt him, but you don't it to be comfortable for him either.
Alot of your training will be making things that are not appropriate uncomfortable,
and the things that you want train to be rewarding. In fact this will be 90% of
your training.

Phil was right to alert me to the fact some people will be abusive even
when you train them properly how to correct a dog.

Phil is a proponent of using the e-collar properly. Any one can say that this is abusive
and should never be done. Weather it is a leash and training collar an ecollar,
or what ever correction you use. Some one will find away to abuse it.