"Black" puppy - update with photo - Page 4

it does not change the fact that this is one awesome looking pup, but i have to go with the others who are thinking something is amiss.  oso, i don't see how your dog can possibly be the sire of this particular pup.
pjp

He definitely is, there is absolutely no doubt, the mother was in my kennel the whole period of her heat and only bred with Draco. I only have 2 other males here, a sable son of Draco who was just under a year old at the time, and a black and red dog. But none of them were allowed near the female. I do not have any black or bicolor dogs and anyway there is no way she could have had an accidental mating... also I can see characteristics of Draco in this puppy, and the sable brother looks (from photos) very typical of his sons. And what about her previous litter that were all black, Farax, the father of that litter was just as unlikely to produce blacks ? There seems to be something unusual about the genetics of this female that she is dominantly producing blacks. All being well I think her owner is planning to breed her with my young sable male (www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/559117.html) on her next heat cycle, so it will be very interesting to see what that breeding produces.

In other breeds, the black gene is a dominant gene. That dominant black color had been bred out of GSDs. The dominant black gene would then theoreticaly be passd onto 50% of the pups.

But I wonder if there is a new mutation to create a dominant black coloring??? I mean, it's possible. It's no more unlikely than the Panda GSD mutation--and we know that happened.

Looks like he is going to be a dark Sable as others have said, But he will Be a Cracker for sure
Steve1

Blackthorn, I think you must be correct, even if this puppy is black sable (the vent is black by the way, and I stil think that sables should have the banded type hairs??)) some brothers, the mother and grandmother were black, but this colour seems to have cropped up out of the blue in a predominantly black/tan showline pedigree. Interesting............ I did a google image search on black sable gsd and with one exception all of the dogs I found had lighter coloured legs. There was one puppy described as black sable that looked similar to mine, but the web page was not very informative, they seemed to have a complete mixture of dogs and no pedigree information....

If the vent is black, the pup is black.  I think the brown shadings are puppy coat that will go away in time.  I have a black dog sired by two sable parents (not sure if that has anything to do with his color changes) who turns reddish-brown twice/year when he blows  his coat - from the time he begins to blow it (hair still attached, not shedding yet) until he's finished and the laquer black color comes back in from underneath the red/brown.  It is unusual, but for part of this time between coats he looks like this puppy, every year.  He is definately a black dog.  If this puppy was sable he would have a lighter colored vent.  Black vent = genetically black dog no matter the shadings of other colors or "bleeding" present.

molly

Interesting, thanks Molly...

I still would like to see DNA test on the sire. Now if that comes confirmed ....that would be interesting.  Someone said something about dominant black gene which was bred out. Throwback on that?  That would be very nice to see. There used to be brindle GSDs too. IMO It is a shame if  diversity of colors goes away.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

He is a beauty,  Timo makes my heart go pitter patter, I will puppy sit!!!!!!!!!!

You can tell he has something of Timo can't you? - even though it is a few generations back.....

Prager,  honsetly there is no shadow of doubt about the father of this litter or the mother's previous all black litter with another showline sable male (not Timo lines).   As far as I can tell the black colour showed up suddenly in the mother's mother, and it does seem to be dominant.  I am trying to get the mother's pedigree registered here but dogs I thought I had registered had disappeared the next day so I am back to square 1.

I do agree about the diversity of colous and I would like to see more good sable, black and bicolors competing in shows too.

Just out of interest I am posting a photo of the mother and her year-old son from the first litter.  These are not my dogs but have just recently come here for training.