Protective trait in temprament

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by olskoolgsds on 16 September 2009 - 04:09

"We all want friendlier dogs now. But some madmen would always love the old ones". Hmmmmmm. I guess I have never thought of myself as a "madman", but if you say so.

by Vikram on 16 September 2009 - 12:09

that was for me not for you :)

cheers

by Held on 16 September 2009 - 17:09

Ok Vikram, do you know any breeders who producing dogs like the social agreesive dog that you describe.what dogs are good example of this type of dog.

Also evry good working dog must have inborn drive to fight and agression if ti is going to do this at some point in its life.and it is proper training that would turn a dog into a dog that loves to fight(FIGHT DRIVE).

Social agressive dog you describe and the way you it that this dog does not need any trigger stimulus would mean this dog dog would go into agreesion for no reason.this is a classic what they call a coo coo dog.Adog that does not give you any warning and just goes ahead and start fighting with you even though no one challenged him to a fight.

Agreat dog must have a reason to fight ,and then enjoys the fight and after it is done,it relaxes and does not stresses out and does not feel the reason to stay in a battle mode.have a nice one.

by DebiSue on 16 September 2009 - 17:09

When I was contemplating buying my girl I observed her kenneled parents on site. While my husband stood next to the breeder I hung back and watched the reaction of both dogs. The sire barked until he recognized we were with the "boss" and quickly calmed down, was even friendly.
The dam stopped barking but kept a low rumble going from time to time while we three stood there chatting. I noticed the sire watching me, tail wagging so I swung my purse at him to check his reaction. He bowed and wagged his tail. He was ready to play. "Bring it on!" was his attitude. I continued to "mess" with him while my husband and the breeder moved closer to the dam.
When I swung my purse up high over my head in an arc, the sire leaped and wiggled all over. But the dam must have decided I was too close to the "boss" to be swinging things around behind his head because she went OFF! Of course the breeder and my husband turned around to see what had set her off and I got the evil eye from my spouse. The breeder calmly said, "She's a little onery sometimes."
Well, our girl is a good combo of each. She is a social butterfly, loves everyone and will climb in your lap if given a chance. But she growled at my husband the other night when he tickled me and I squealed. She was immediately reminded as to who the alpha in the house is but she also barks ferociously when someone comes to the door. I have no doubt she would protect us if someone got stupid. She has gotten very possessive of the home of late. What do you make of this as far as defensive aggression?

Deb

by Rexy on 16 September 2009 - 17:09

I totally agree with Vikram's definition of social aggression, my GSD behaves "exactly" in that fashion. He will tolorate a stranger in a setting where no threat exists, but will fire if the stranger tries either to pat or befriend him or eyeballs him in a stare. If a stranger in a non threatening setting ignors him completely, he will approach and sniff, move away and watch the stranger intently.

In a walk on leash in a public place, he instinctively fires at everyone and is cunning to leash length and will wait until a stranger is within leash distance to lunge and aggress. The handling and training of the dog is not to react by command, but having said that, he would just love the opportunity to pick a fight if permitted. Anyone within his pack, he is extremely friendly and affectionate towards them with absolutely no handler aggression, not the slightest hint of it, can take food from his mouth. He has a fast recovery from an aggressive episode, will take food treats immediately afterwards and show affection and softness towards the handler unphased.

The general overview of the dog's disposition is that strangers have no place in his life, they shouldn't be there and his job is to get rid of them, move them on in fear of him, a victory to have someone retreat and scuttle away.

by Vikram on 16 September 2009 - 18:09

Unstable dogs is a different discussion topic. Socially Aggressive dogs are not unstable dogs.

by GSDPACK on 16 September 2009 - 18:09

Held.. I have one. very stable, laid back dog that understands the fight and the game.
I know everybody has the best dog ever.. lol

My only enemy is a bit nerves that I created with some crappy training (fixing it now).
One minute he can be kicking you Butt.. no prey monster, next minute he realizes when fight is over and it is ok.
he will engage on a passive person if command given (that was pretty hard since in "his" eyes no thread was given). He is stable around people, dogs cats (if they do not run, yet I can still call him in the middle of chase)

I have seen better dogs than mine shut down by shitty training. and not that good dog perform nicely because they had the proper trainig.

You can have the best dog ever, if your trainig suck.. well the dog will suck also....
There is not such a thing as the ultimate bloodlines, breeder, sire. I have been tellin this for years. Yes you have better chance to get what you need with certain dogs, certain breeders.. the rest is up to the handlers, trainers.
Another thing is..not every dog produces nice puppies. That is why all of this is just a combo of luck, knowledge, training and dedication.

Pack.

by beetree on 16 September 2009 - 18:09

My boy is much more attentive at night, like last night when he gave a single meaningful bark, (it was about 3:30 a.m) and it woke me, so up I go, and look out the window to see a lone person walking out front swinging a flashlight. So, it is behavior like this, being appropriately watchful and protective at the right time, that confirms my opinion that my showline GSD has what it takes to be our family protector. By day, I'm still looking for that aloofness, but to be sure there is no question in his mind, whose dog he is.

by Ryanhaus on 16 September 2009 - 18:09

I have a bitch from old east German lines, she has her CGC, CD is temperament certified and just last week got her first leg in Rally, but last year while I was training outdoors for the out of sight sits & downs, while I was hiding she stood up from her sit, and the trainer guy walked very slowly towards her and stood in front of her and leaned in to make her sit, and she jumped at his face and growled, no bite, just a big growl and bark, and then sat down, I look back at that and I understand she was watching his movements towards her and to her must have seemed suspicious, and then he envaded her space in a threatening way, from her point of view.
I still train with the same man, and she's fine with him, I just tell him he can't correct her, that's my job

While I was at the gas station the man stuck his hand in to pat everyone, I had 3 dogs with me, nothing happened cause he wasn't threatening, he was a friendly stranger with no bad intentions, I think dogs can sense way more than we give them credit for

This is a good topic!

by Uglydog on 16 September 2009 - 19:09

It appears as a general rule, Standard Breeding encourages Balance, Whilst Sport Breeding Encourages extremes.

Sport itself was frowned upon by Breed Founder Max....and now we know why.

Schutzhund was Standard Breeding (Pass/Fail) and not a Sport for decades.

You can see the evolution in the dogs as a result. Same thing with Hunting breeds-Labs and Pointers, even hounds in UKC.

Sport changes the breeding priorities

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