German Shepherd Speed? - Page 4

I have noticed that dogs always seem so much faster when running to bite the sleeve then running any other time. Hmm  

Eagles,
Missed your point entirely.  I think I know what a dog is and I think I have some good sense in regards to them.  GARD, if you see this would you mind timing a dog swimming?  I am in agreement with you on some of the times I am seeing on here, but no one is defending their position or evidence.

I am not saying anyone is wrong here. The speeds are just a little fast in my experience.

I think it is kind of like the dad who tells his buddies his son's batting average is .325 when it is really .278

Ronnie that is the funniest thing I have seen in a while.

A man that is a good swimmer can out swim a dog.  A dog is fast on land, faster then a man, but in the water they are hindered by two legs pulling, while all the time under the water.  This is paddling and is the slowest form of swimming.  To swim faster they would need to bring their front legs out of the water as a man does and, they would need to be kicking as well, which they do not.  Much of their energy and speed is wasted on bringing their legs/feet back to the front to pull again.  The water is acting as a resistance to their efforts, thus slowing them down more.  They simply are not designed to swim fast.  I know in my younger days no dog could have swam as fast as I did and I am a far cry from Olympic swimmers.  The fastest man, world record holders are swimming a little over 5 mph. about 5.25 mph or very slightly higher for short spurts. You can count them on one hand.

I did not see Slamduncs second post in which he clarified what he meant by trotting.   This was my bad, I missed it.  As far as the swimming goes, I will buy any dog a prime rib dinner (raw of course) that can swim 7-8 mph.

olskoolgsd, a whitetail can swim 11-13 mph 1/2 mile distances.

  /quote  " Umbra, a world record-holding dog, can swim 4 miles (6.4 km) in 73 minutes, placing her in the top 25% in human long-distance swimming competitions "  -- That's 3.54 mph long distance. Now shorten that by 3 1/2 miles with a deer like K9 ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ability_to_swim

Eagle4yu,
I think, and emphasize think, you have missed a point.  A dog has great endurance, can go at close to top speed for a long distance without weakening.  They are good distance swimmers as they can maintain a speed that is nearly full speed for a long distance.  I have no argument with a dog averaging 3.54 mph for a distance of 4 miles.  That is certainly reasonable to accept.  Dogs have incredible endurance in distances.  Think of it as a human distance runner that runs a marothon in 2 hrs. plus hours.  He is conditioned for this.  I believe if  you use your method of calculating his speed, then one would have to assume that this man who is averaging 12 mph for 26.2 miles should be able to easliy sprint  in the 20+mph range.
The fact is he cannot.  He can hold a good speed for a long time but is in no way a sprinter.  A world class sprinter can run in the neighbor hood of 27 mph.  This puts him in the race with a gsd in sprinting speed, but he has no where near the dogs endurance to continue this speed, in fact after 50 yards a man begins to gradually slow down, while the dog is just starting. 

This debate may not bring about an answer that suits you or I, but I guess I would challenge you to go out to a lake that has a long dock.  Practice walking at a 7-8 mph rate.  You might be suprised how fast this is.  A field march in the military is 5 mph and that is a fast walk.  Now have your dog start swimming beside you with you leading him and see at the end of 30-40 yards where he is at.  My point to all of my posts are to encourage critical thinking.  Whether you are correct or I am is not as important to me is encouraging people to not sit around and accept everything as the gospel.  Way to many in this country accept everything that is said and do not stop to think it through and ask themselves if this is reasonable or not.  I am speaking in generalities, not specifics.

Remember this on the dog issue.  Look at the dogs body.  His style of propelling himself in the water, his inabilty to kick with his back legs, his dense coat, his relatively short legs and the manner in which he uses them, his head out of the water and everything else that is not designed for speed, but endurance.

I recently read a thread somewhere by someone claiming  that horses swim 30 mph.  If so, I will sell my ski boat and get a horse to pull us around the lake.  Not one person questioned this comment.  Our nation has become a nation that believes T.V. is real as are Hollywood movies.  Common sense is gone as well as critical thinking.  How many dumb rumors do we buy without looking at it from another direction, or investigating the facts? Well, sorry for the philosophy lecture.

Let me know how the swim goes, and if you are correct about 7-8 mph. I will buy your boy a prime rib dinner as I said.
Thanks

* "My point to all of my posts are to encourage critical thinking." *

... I dunno. Where's all the race track people ...

Nice thread btw.. till the 30 mph swimming horse.

Any horse I've swam, swims at about my average walking speed, and believe me I don't walk at 30 mph.

Oldschool and Gard,
I clocked the dogs with a calibrated radar gun at a dead sprint towards the gun chasing a ball on a rope.  GARD, I'm sure you have used radar guns.  We would have done a rocket recall, but I didn't trust anyone holding my dog.  He will nail anyone that grabs his leash..except me. 

Here's how we did it:
Very large field at a park, many acres of flat soccer fields.  Cop with radar gun set up at one end where their was no interference from moving vehicles.  No cars to be caught in the radar only dogs.  Handler throws the toy and lets the dog go.  The radar gun would pick the dogs up running straight at it and the operator would watch the speed, he could see the increase and high speed from the digital display.  The radar gun is much more accurate than car or ATV's speedometers. 

My dog is very fast on a sprint.  I threw the toy and he sprinted for it, the other cop kept track of the speeds and called it out.  He's not in K9, so he didn't have a dog in the race.  Mine hit 31 mph at top end, the recall back which was a fast run but not a sprint averaged 26mph for my dog.  The other K9 hit 32 mph as a high.  Two other GSD's, both females hit 26 mph as a high end and around 22 to 23 was the average recall speed with the toy for them. 

I found it very interesting that his top end at a full sprint was only 5 mph fastest than his normal run.  My dog does love to run full out all the time.  If I cut him loose in a field he will just start to run for the fun of it.  He is always pretty much wide open.  I guess it takes a lot to go from 26 mph to 31 mph full out.  26 mph was not hard for my dog at all. 

I am going to do it again on October 6th at our K9 team training day.  I naturally want to beat the other guy who got me by 1 mph.  Sorry Gard, no exaggerations or fish stories here.  If I wanted to brag I would have said my dog was the fastest. 

Jim