Weak K9 almost gets handler killed - Page 4

Geez, Sam I know you were too lazy to read the threads were you also too lazy to watch the video?  Guess what, I fought full contact karate in my early twenties.  I also teach Defensive tactics for my PD.  One thing I learned a long time ago is that there is always some one bigger and badder than me (or you) and this person might be able to beat me in a fair fight. I also learned that every good street fighter is equivalent to a green or brown belt in Karate.  They can do the same things, kick, punch, scratch, bite and ground fight.  You can never take people for granted or become complacent.   I have learned some techniques that I would never use on the street unless my life was in jeopardy.   I also teach firearms which is another perishable skill that needs consistent training and practice. 

Yes, we teach weapon retention in the academy, it's a mandatory skill to learn and master.  But as Mike Tyson said once in a interview "everyone has a plan until they get hit."   Sam, when was the last time you were in a real fight?  When was the last time you fought a guy who was 20 years old, 6', 200 lbs and high on coke?  Just your average dope dealer, oh yea and who wanted to kill you. 

Here's the bottom line, the cop did a great job and won the fight.  He went home alive and that's what it is all about.  The cop never gave up and kept his witts about him.  He was able to draw a back up weapon and shoot and kill the criminal.  Good day for the cop. 

The dog engaged and gave the cop time to retrieve his back up weapon.  His duty weapon jammed and is no doubt why the pos didn't shoot and kill him.  As far as the dog goes it has been stated it was a drug dog not a patrol dog.  I guarantee the dog engaged harder than the vast majority of the GSD's that people own on this forum.  Your house pets believe it not, will probably not engage a guy like this even PPD or SchH trained ones.  It is a 1 in a thousand dog that will.  Many people are deluded into thinking their dog could do a better job than this dog did at engaging a violent subject.  I beg to differ.   

I would expect a patrol dog to engage the subject and fight ferociously.  Any K9 cop will tell you until the dog has it's first real bite and fight with a bad guy you're really not 100% sure how the dog will react.  I'm fortunate that my first day on the street with my dog we got an apprehension and a bite and I got into a fight a short time later with a dope dealer after a pursuit and the dog got his second bite.  I am pretty confident my dog will bite and hold on if I go hands on with some one and I expect that from him. 

I think we need to stop critiquing the video, especially since only part of it is posted.   Both the dog and cop did exactly what they needed to do.

Jim

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I have enjoyed reading this post. I also enjoyed learning about the dog fighting high up on a suspect. It makes sense when you think about it.
I  would like to ask a question, you state that to be a good dog he has to be aggressive. Do you think you can have the best of both worlds, or is that asking for an accident? I am not talking of  a sch dog (sport). I have been around sch and know the arguments for it. However, my daughter has a female that has spent time on the field and when she moved has not had time to go back. I have been watching her with keen interest. She is constructed funny, but perfect hips and elbows. Her temperment is aloof, she is relaxing a little as she gets older (she is a little over 2) and she has socialized the heck out of her, but lets her be social on her terms, never forced. There is no doubt in my mind she would fight and dirty. Her and my female got  into it, she was smart about it, she only went for the major veins on my female, neck and under arms. the vet said was a good thing mine was a coat because she did not waste a bite, she would have bled out. Because, Of  the situations we find ourselves in, on occassions, I am thinking not to have her finished in SCH. My line of thinking is it may take away the "dirty" fighter in her and she is such a tiny one with a will of Iron.

I understand fighting another dog vs human. However, her canine instincts run deep and she has no fear and is willing to back it up. We keep a sharp eye on her when out and about. She is turning into one hell of a dog. the argument  for  sch, is  you do not want an accidental bite, but I think that can be controlled thru obedience and the  ability to read your dog. She is the first dog I have come across that I feel sch may actually work against her. So for now we have put that off and she is putting  her in agility. I think that it will be good for both of them, the dog has quick mind and is so darn fast and it will build the OB, because right now I think if she felt my daughter was threatened she would not listen.

Sam, you wrote:

And a 6' 200 pound cocaine addict at 20? Wow that is the fattest 20 year old coke addict I have ever heard of. Also, the officer should have a bit of adreneline pumping with his life on the line.

I actually said High on coke, not coke addict..  I don't know where you are from, but I deal with plenty of young guys who use and sell  crack that are not a bag of bones.  I've arrested 300 lb, 23 year old crack dealers who also used.  Not every crack head is missing their teeth and skinny as a rail.  There are a lot of factors, like length of use, amount of daily use and general health.  You don't become a walking skeleton overnight.  

My point was that if anyone was to be scrutinized, it is the officer, not the dog.  

I disagree here.  If anyone is to be scrutinized it should be the subject that decided to resist arrest and tried to kill the cop.  The guy was told he was under arrest and made decisions that sent the whole thing into motion.  As much as I dislike the OP's twisted posting of this video, it is typical for him to post things inaccurately.  I'm glad he did post this.  Videos like this are a good wake up call.  I think I might go out and buy a small back up weapon for my ankle.  That cop could have easily have been fighting with the other 3 or 4 guys that were there as well.  

One thing that is evident from the video and I always stress to new officers is to call for back up; before the shit hits the fan because you never know when it will. 

FWIW,
Jim

agreed

Jim,
You say 'Needed to do'

They were lucky. You know it. I know it.
The gun jammed. Had it not...dead cop.

The Dog was weak. Probably not well trained but genetically it belongs doing S&R or culled.
All dogs should be dual trained for the reasons shown in the vid.
Had the gun worked or not had operator error (safety?), you have a dead cop.

Had 1 or more of his buddies joined in..dead cop.
Lots of what ifs and you throw up excuses.

 

Procedure was rotten. Lucky cop.

LOL.. I had to grin when I saw the comments about using whatever you can in a bad situation, i.e. ice cooler, hot coffee (in the face), etc. Has anyone seen the video of the poor little petite police gal who tries to arrest a great big guy with long arms? She's got the gun on him, clenched in both hands, in a semi-crouch, and he moves in on her easy, gesturing with his hands, then real quick, he goes for that gun and gets her off balance, pulls her forward and they struggle. He gets control of the gun pretty quick, and after that, I forget what exactly transpires (details). But, basically, they're in a public parking lot and some other customers begin to move in on them. One grabs the guy's arm and wrestles for the weapon.. ends up with the bad guy on the tarmac and a HUGE fat woman comes over and SITS on him, until police back up arrives! It's about the funniest finish I've ever seen. That gal had to weigh a good 350 lbs. and she just straddles the prostrate baddy and KER-PLUMP.. She gets real comfortable, because she knows she's going to wait a bit. That guy is lucky he didn't get the air squeezed out of him, but he was going NOWHERE!! If you look around, it's probably on YouTube. And that little police gal needs some training, for sure, to let that guy get the gun from her like that, when she had the drop on him. I'm really down on police shootings, but that guy righteously deserved to get shot!

Sorry I've been offline and not following this thread, but I'm in the middle of a bunch of stuff right now and don't have a lot of time.